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Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?


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Old 01-25-2016, 11:05:30 AM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

I was watching the show "Diesel brothers". During their show introduction they claim diesel is more powerful than steam....which shows they don't know much about steam. It also claims trains are diesel powered...which shows they don't know much about trains either....

In my experience with diesel tractors...before the turbocharging they were sad and inferior. Turbocharging is nothing more then a crutch for them and without it they wouldn't be desirable. Another crutch for diesel is a larger flywheel. Look what turbocharging and an enlarged flywheel would do for a small block v8 gas engine. A lot better power to weight ration that would eat a diesel.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:31:16 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

All modern freight locomotives are diesel-electric. I would have to disagree about diesel engines being inferior to gas. I don't think I would call turbochargers or larger flywheels "crutches" either. They are components that are needed to make the engine perform to its peak potential, just like a gas engine works better with EFI instead of a carburetor. Diesel engines have more low end torque which makes them perfect for pulling power. Why do you think that ALL modern heavy equipment has one instead of a gas engine. I don't see any Modern tractors with a gas engine option. Just an example, Freight locomotives Idle at 150 RPM and develop over 4400 HP at 950 RPM!! Try getting a gas engine to do that!! One thing I do agree with is that steam power is still king!! I don't think they will ever find anything more powerfull than steam!!
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:36:25 PM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

Diesel-Electric is not diesel....locomotives are electric power....diesel engine just runs the generators...big difference.
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:20:41 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

CM: Not to throw fuel (gas or diesel) on the fire, but, in a way, you're undercutting your own point---if RRs found gasoline engines cheaper/more efficient, they'd be using it instead of diesel to run their gens...unless they saved enough on reduced fire ins premiums, handling dangers, evaporation loss etc to offset...
Personally, I've never been a diesel fan, but only because in my engine work days breaker point distributors and simple carbs were easier to keep limping along than pump/injector systems...with modern complexity, I'm not sure which's easiest to maintain etc...
I'm 84, and this discussions been going on as long as I can remember, and, I'm sure, long before and long after me, even if I live long enough to see explosive combustion engines replaced (highly unlikely)...
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:21:19 PM
Greg Mosley Greg Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

My opinion about Coal Rollers is that there here to stay until the EPA squeezes them out. Slowly but surely one step at a time. Emission Compliance is very stringent especially in the large units for power generation. Catalytic converters were mandated a short time ago. Now they are limited on run times. Many will be permanently shut down and scrapped in the future. As far as Locos go, new technology is being implemented. Smaller multiple engine/genset units which phase in and out with load. Probably wont last as long engine wise, but more emission friendly. I personally own a DuraMax/Allison LB7 (Izuzu built) pre-emission and wouldnt trade it for the world. Consistantly 23 mpg empty and 18 mpg loaded with trailer grossing 26000 lbs. 400 HP. I am hardly in the pedal with this combination (1650 RPM.) As far as Diesel Brothers go, I will leave it up to the public. Just scripted junk. Whew! Enuf Said
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:32:11 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

The EPA can have my 500hp 6.7L Dodge Cummins when they pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel!
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:06:26 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

Don't know about all of that but I do know my grandfather put over 1,000,000 miles on a B-61 Mack truck pulling building supplies up and down the east coast with no major engine problems or failures. I think part of what your discussion pertains to is the evolution of the diesel engine. You'll be hard pressed to find a manufacture today offering a non turbo diesel to the public...and who's to say what the future holds.

And Junko I'm with you on the 6.7 Cummins. Mine '07 is seeing over 600hp with tunes and straight exhaust. Get rid of the emissions crap and let them breath
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:33:35 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

Diesel locomotives are Diesel powered, the generators and electric motors are the transmission. What you're saying would be comparable to saying a truck isn't gasoline powered, it's powered by an automatic transmission.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:35:39 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casemaker View Post
Diesel-Electric is not diesel....locomotives are electric power....diesel engine just runs the generators...big difference.
That could not be further from the truth!! True the diesel engine runs a generator that runs large electric motors that move the train. But the generator and motors are just a power transmission device. The same as any other transmission in your car, truck or tractor.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:37:55 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

Preston's grandfather's million-mile-Mack is no oddity, either. Those big truck diesels live that long of a life on a regular basis. The brains behind the wheel and proper maintenance will tell that story.
I won't be buying a diesel any time soon. I can't justify it. The majority of the miles I put on a pickup are in town which is not good for diesels. Now, if I had a couple tractors I wanted to show around the country, you bet! The Dodge/Cummins would be my first pick. Nothing against the Duramax, but I prefer straight-six's pullling away. That comes from 15+ years driving big trucks... diesels, by the way.
Now, as to the railroad locomotives, Yes, they are diesel powered. Instead of the traditional clutch, transmission, and differentials as you'd find in a truck or tractor, they run a genny which powers traction motors on the axles. If you wanna pt 4500 horsies to the rail, you gotta put 4500 horsies to the generator to spin those motors. I live by the mainline, here, BNSF, and it's kinda fun to take a minute to listen to those girls dragging 110 cars of coal, up the grade. They rattle my windows,sometimes.
Diesel is the efficient way to get big power. Steam power is wonderful, don't get me wrong,but in this day and age, the cheapo's who count the beans for the railroads would NOT want to pay a fella big bucks to tend the fire and add water, nor would they want to maintain and own all the coaling and watering facilities. They used to stop trains every 100 miles for maintenance. They stopped more often for water and coal. Lost time cost lots of money. Now,they blast through here making 200-mile trips in way less time than they made hundred-mile days with steam.
Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see and hear a bit Yellowstone type pullling all it's worth past my house. Would bring tears to my eyes to be sure.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:35:30 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

I'm not a thermal engineer but did study it while doing my undergrad degree. Diesel is more powerful than steam when compared with thermal input vs. HP output. A lot of the thermal input for steam goes up the stack. With diesel, more of it is used to supply energy to the pistons, then crank, then output. Diesel is more efficient than gasoline in the same regard (a gallon of diesel will give you more HP than a gallon of gasoline). This is why a diesel engine is more fuel efficient.

Now if you're comparing displacement of a diesel vs. steam, steam may have an advantage. It all comes back to how the question is asked.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:58:00 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

fad

/fad/

noun

noun: fad; plural noun: fads

an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.
"prairie restoration is the latest gardening fad in the Midwest"

synonyms: craze, vogue, trend, fashion, mode, enthusiasm, passion, obsession, mania, rage, compulsion, fixation, fancy, whim, fascination; informalthing

Dodge introduced the Cummins in 1989, Ford the Powerstroke in 1994 and Chevrolet the Duramax in 2001. Variants of all three are still being sold like popcorn and for the most part, are very dependable. There has been a successful diesel pickup for 27 years and various trial and errors before that. Based on that...Not a fad. As technology changes or improves, they may be replaced with a better substitute though.

Joel

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Old 01-25-2016, 05:51:35 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

Level the playing field....compare a non turbo diesel pickup to a big block gas engine...or put a turbo on both of them and see who has more horsepower.

As far as trains....as electric motor is not a transmission by definition.

---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casemaker View Post
Level the playing field....compare a non turbo diesel pickup to a big block gas engine...or put a turbo on both of them and see who has more horsepower.

As far as trains....as electric motor is not a transmission by definition.
I

The electric motor powers the train because the diesel does not have the low end torque to start like the electric motor does. Only steam and electric have as much torque at low rpm as they do high rpm. I have had my cdl since 2003 and big diesels don't impress me much. There is a reason they need all of those gears...takes about 8 of them to get up to 45 mph.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:41:39 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups...temp fad or not ?

As in all things truck, it all depends on what the intended use will be. If you want a beast to pull big loads and trailers then the turbo diesels are the way to go. If diesel fuel availibity or cold weather operation is a concern then the large gas engine may be the answer. If your in the city and the only thing you haul is your own arse then you sure don't need a mega truck but all too often they seem to be the guys with the mega pick ups. Then you see guys with the little half ton units going down the road trying to tow the Queen Mary size boats. Rail Roads are concerned with one type of service and the same with long haul transports. They use the power that gets the thing done period. I've had a class A CDL for close to 40 years and have pretty much driven all the various beasts out there. All large GVW trucks no matter what type fuel use many gears. My old tandem grain trucks with big CID gas motors have 10 gear trans. The big diesel rigs run about the same gears. The big craze in new units are Modified power shift automatics, and these units also use many range shifts as well. The reason for these new designs are that the average newby don't have the smarts to drive a manual trans anymore, let alone split shift a auxillary trans or rear axle.

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Old 01-25-2016, 07:22:29 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temp fad or not ?

Then there was GM's half-assed attempt to make a Diesel engine out of a V8 gas engine block. Yes, I bought one of those in 1979. It was my first and last attempt at owning a Diesel vehicle.

Cost around $10,000 and the trade-in value was $500. Once the word got out, the trade-in value imploded.

Actually, the only problem that I had with it was the day the governor gave up and I limped to the dealer at 20 m.p.h. It smelled like a furnace going down the road. The family called it the tank.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:24:53 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temp fad or not ?

By definition, Casemaker, the generator/traction motor IS a transmission. There is no law saying that a transmission has to be of gears or planetary type. In a locomotive, it's a two-part transmission: The first is the generator which receives power from the engine, the second is the traction motor which gets it's power from the generator and is geared to the axles of the locomotive. It's very possible this method could be used to deliver power from an engine to the drive wheels of a car or truck. In fact, the hybrid vehicles are somewhat similar except that the traction motor gets power from a battery bank which is recharged, as necessary, by an engine driven generator.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:43:18 PM
Sonny Reese Sonny Reese is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

I have a 97 ford f-350 ,has some sort of junk v-8 diesel in it and has been hauled home more times than driven!---its sluggish and gets only 16 mpg, top speed ranges from 25 to 50 mph ( when it does run)---have a whole garbage can full of filters that quit in it have also removed and tried to clean the tanks,---(wasted time)-- as the tanks were clean in the first place!---afraid to drive it anymore---but then engine is probably worn out,--it has 112,000 miles on it and they are only good for about 60,000 before major!

Wish I could trade it for another 95 gmc with a 350 gas engine in it.---That was a real truck that would pull the load!
in closing this post its my opinion that diesel pickups are just a fad1 thanks for reading and PLEASE DONT TAKE ANY OF MY POST TO HEART!
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:21:06 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Harry, you could have repaired that governor with a rubber band....
but nobody was supposed to know that that injector pump had a rubber band inside....

My strictly mechanical, non-electronic, bone stock 2WD 1991 dodge with 12 valve Cummins is hands down the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
It will probably be the last truck that I will ever own. No more gas-powered trucks for me.

Now if only I can get the windshield wipers to work and the doors to close...
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:24:05 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

I think the high performance end of it is a fad.There is a long bed cummins dodge running around here with the wheels completely out from under the wheel wells, a 2 foot pipe sticking out of the bed, No I am not lieing,the damn thing is 2 foot round and the truck is lowered so it sits like a little honda civic.You can see the weld seem in the pipe where he had a metal shop roll a piece of stainless to make it. Makes a lot of smoke and noise and really aint going any where. reminds me of the little civics that had the bumble bee mufflers a few years back. Noise with no go.



Most happy joe weekend warriors do not need diesel. It is expensive to maintain and cold weather like we had last week parks them.Just in a 20 mile trip to town I saw 3 fords with power chokes parked with the hoods up. Filters were full of water I guess.
I rode with a friend of mine to the mountains to haul back a bobcat and his ford had the 6.0. We got up in the mountains with that load and the transmission was literally boiling fluid out the vent. The engine was running hot,and I honestly didn't think we were going to get home.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:41:24 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Diesel engines are suited for a turbo by design. There's no throttle to reduce airflow, you keep the turbo spinning at any speed. A gasoline engine only gets boost when the throttle is opened, easy cruising the turbo is just along for the ride.
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