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Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?


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  #21  
Old 01-25-2016, 08:59:57 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

That 6.0 was the contender for all time worst ever put on the market. They decided to build a downsized version of 7.3 Navistar. so they tried to cut things down and as a result the operation was a success but the patient died! I still have a 6.9 and 7.3 here that each have close to 300K and no issues. We pull large GN trailers frequently over 23000 gross. I had 3 or 4
350 gas engines that were good but hungry. My last 350 gas G M was my worst ever engine. No power and 5 mpg without the trailer. At 49000 the engine had to be gone thru as the thing used more oil than gas, rings and valves carboned up totally. At 79000 the trans shot craps and the motor destroyed the camshaft. Then at 95000 the thing was drinking oil again so parked it and got the Fords with the Navistar diesels.
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:27:07 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

All my pickups are diesel. Does not seem like a fad to me. They are older, 80's & 90's, all mechanical.

(I would go back to gas if I had a time machine; 66 C-20, Targetmaster 350, headers, manual steer and brake, hard shift TH 400, and that pretty red head by my side)

Hope the wife does not see this, haha.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:02:45 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

The Ford 6 Oh No! was a bad fad. I've pulled the same trailer, same load of around 20K with a 454 Chevy and a 440 Dodge, both with 4.11 gears. Going to the Cummins with 3.54's was like stepping into a dragster, big torque to get you moving, twice the fuel mileage, and instead of a parade being behind you it would happily tow at speeds far exceeding the posted limits. If you need some power the Diesel is the only way to go.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:08:06 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Yea those were the days. Must be why I kept a few oldies, and the wife too! Strange tho, the truck doesn't look much different, but the wife and me don't look too good these days!
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:10:31 PM
Greg Mosley Greg Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

A few more words of wisdom to ad to the L.C. Judge commentary if you want to get on the technical side of engine technology. With integrated electronics todays engines automobile or light truck, are far superior than old school. Feasability is a major factor whether to own a gas or diesel. If you do large amounts of towing long distance diesel does pay off. If your around town cruiser I wouldnt even think about it. Regarding gas engine technology the combustion event is spent at approximately 26 degrees ATDC. No more power is harvested from the fuel from that point. A diesel at that point is still has available combustive power available. To validate this, review available dyno data for gas and diesel engines alike. See where the H.P. and Torque Curves intersect at indicated RPMs. If understood this will help shed some light on the subject. Absolutely Enuf Said.
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  #26  
Old 01-25-2016, 11:15:08 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

If I had a choice, I would have a new big block in my dually. I can deal with a little less torque and speed. The maintenance cost of a diesel will kill you, especially with the current emission requirements. The diesel starts off by costing many thousands more than the gas and diesel fuel is still higher than gas here. You have to drive many miles for a diesel to pay off and by then the rest of the chassis is already long gone due to the salt brine on the roads.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:16:26 PM
Greg Mosley Greg Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Sorry folks a little high speed fat finger towards the end. Enuf Said
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  #28  
Old 01-25-2016, 11:26:59 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Diesel engine is more thermodynamically efficient than a gas engine (Otto cycle) due to higher compression results in more power remember it's not all horsepower torque is VERY important.

A turbocharger is not a crutch it increases the efficiency reusing the exhaust to increase compression think of it as a compound steam engine. By removing the heat from the exhaust (waste) and using it to increase intake compression via a turbine you can get more power from a small displacement engine. Diesels are easy to turbocharge since they don't have a spark ignition.

High pressure gas fuel rail technology is improving the use of turbos on gas engines.

The 6.0 was revolutionary although flawed. The Variable Vane turbo eliminated turbo lag by allowing for a small turbo at low RPMs and a large Turbo at high RPMs. The real flaw in the 6.0 was the poor emission design that resulted in an array of problems. Ford forced Navistar and rushed the development. Common rail was the future anyways the HEUI system wasn't going to last in the future.

My F-250 with 460 pulling 10,000 lbs and 4.11 gears got gallons per miles and my 6.0 pulling 18,000 lbs (slightly overloaded) with 3.73 gears gets miles per gallons. The 6.0 was born cursed but is a powerful Diesel engine. Still waiting for my plutonium powered Delorean.

Emissions will make the average joe owning a diesel in the future more and more cost prohibitive.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:37:07 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

I believe the emissions requirements will be the end of consumer grade pickup diesels. OTR trucks can justify the additional costs of the emmisions but its going to get where the pickups get less mileage and power to clean the exhaust up. Eventually the gas motor will come back out in front. I ran the numbers when I bought my last truck and the diesel just didn't cost out for me.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:40:29 AM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Diesels as prime movers are going to be around for a while - not a passing fad. Some of the most efficient engines around are diesels - think of the big diesels on cargo ships. Certainly diesel locomotives aren't a passing fad - again due to their efficiency. Diesels were also being developed for aircraft about the time jet engines started becoming common. The diesels were more efficient (think of carrying enough fuel to fly from the US to Australia) but the jets could fly faster and at higher altitude, which gave them an overall advantage.

What might be a passing fad is the hotrod diesels pickup trucks with the loud open exhaust or the huge fat stack sticking up behind the cab that appears to take up half the bed. I don't understand those. We have an F350 diesel that pulls a horse trailer with two fat overweight draft horses just fine but we left the exhaust (and the rest of the truck for that matter) completely stock.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:45:50 AM
John Hanson John Hanson is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

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Originally Posted by slip knot View Post
. OTR trucks can justify the additional costs of the emmisions
I beg to differ with you there!!! The big trucks can not afford the additional cost...no way. It's forced on them in some states, and has forced many out of business. It's 99% political.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:13:51 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

With the way Ford has evolved this new eco boost engines pumping a lot of horsepower and mpg out of a really small gas engine...I don't think the diesels can compete. I don't think the older gas engines didn't do a bad job of competing with the diesels either.

In the fall of 2013 Indiana and Illinois wasn't able to grow much hay at all. You just could not find any. I was working in Georgetown Kentucky and with 8 cuttings of hay that year they could not give it away. I purchased a gooseneck trailer to pull behind my 96 Chev 3500 dually. It had a bone stock 350 smallblock which was factory with multiport fuel injection with automatic transmission and 4.11 reared. My GVW was from 28,000 to 30,000 loaded. Going up I-75 to Cincinnatti then I-74 west to Illinois it was quite hilly. The diesels pulling goosenecks like mine hauling hay would pass me on the level ground but it was quite another thing when they got to a hill of any distance. I am assuming they had more gears than mine because you could see the smoke rolling when they downshifted....sometimes twice just to keep going above 55 mph....I ran in 3rd all the time and passed most of them on the hills while they were grabbing gears. I averaged 14 mpg overall...they were dumping gallons out their stacks it looked like... sometimes you could not see the road for the smoke clouds.
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  #33  
Old 01-26-2016, 04:25:16 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

We have nearly ALL commercial vehicles over here with diesel engines, and we are getting 200+ hp (real HP, not SAE ones! ) from a couple of litres.

Our Renault Trafic vans were 2.5 litre with 140hp and 160hp engines, pretty efficient too, but a bit of a nightmare to work on.

Our 'Old School' Mercedes bus has 136hp from 4.25 litres but has huge amounts of torque at 1200rpm, so it's a good lugger.

We never understood why the USA car companies like Ford and GM didn't bring their diesel technology over, it would have been quite successful in a range of lightweight vans etc.

We run V8 Land Rover Discoveries at home, fuelled on LPG to keep the costs down.

Peter
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:26:28 PM
NW2156 NW2156 is offline
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Modern railroads (with diesel-electric) are about as interesting as watching a conveyer belt. Nothing will ever compare with the impact on the senses like steam. No, this post isn't germane to the original topic. America!
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:09:08 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

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Originally Posted by ListerDiesel View Post
We have nearly ALL commercial vehicles over here with diesel engines, and we are getting 200+ hp (real HP, not SAE ones! ) from a couple of litres.

Our Renault Trafic vans were 2.5 litre with 140hp and 160hp engines, pretty efficient too, but a bit of a nightmare to work on.

Our 'Old School' Mercedes bus has 136hp from 4.25 litres but has huge amounts of torque at 1200rpm, so it's a good lugger.

We never understood why the USA car companies like Ford and GM didn't bring their diesel technology over, it would have been quite successful in a range of lightweight vans etc.

We run V8 Land Rover Discoveries at home, fuelled on LPG to keep the costs down.

Peter
One word - California

One of the nicest cars I ever drove in France years ago was Ford's version of the 500 (Taurus) in Europe. It had a nice diesel in it was comfortable and drove great.

The other thing is in the 80's General Motors 5.7 and 4.3 diesels were a disaster and killed the thought of diesel cars in the USA for the masses.

I understand why VW did what they did in the USA. Its cheating but our strangle hold on emissions is too much. I'd guess 80% of the cars in Europe are diesel.
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:27:28 AM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

Just did a 1400 mile haul in my Duramax pulling a 20ft box trailer, set the cruise at 65 mph and engine purred at 1800 rpm, even on the long hills. I used to do that drive with gasser, I'm not going back to gas.

Cost of diesel repairs is high, and a first rate PIA, did the injectors on my truck right before I left for Nevada a few months back, cost was about 3K in parts, and lots of blood and back pain.
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Old 01-27-2016, 06:37:15 AM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

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Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
did the injectors on my truck right before I left for Nevada a few months back, cost was about 3K in parts, and lots of blood and back pain.
Our two Renault vans have never had the engines touched other than regular servicing. One covered over 250k miles before something started to go wrong in the balancer shafts at the bottom of the engine, the other is still going strong at 180k miles and just had the clutch go on it. Ran them both on semi-synthetic 10W-40 diesel oil.

I don't understand why the USA is so behind on diesels, we have many big truck brands in Europe with some really nice power plants, but the US doesn't seem to get diesels at all.

Most are manual boxes of course, 6-speed on the Renaults.

Automatics are rare in Europe, especially in the heavies, but Allison auto's are used, ans some makers use ZF or make their own.

Peter
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:03:36 AM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

You can't compare the new light truck diesels to the old mechanical diesels. The power is higher, but the maintenance and repair costs are much, much, higher. You also can't compare a diesel to an old carbureted gas engine. I would like to see a real world comparison between a 2016 gas and 2016 diesel in a 1 ton pickup pulling a load.
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:23:59 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

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Originally Posted by oldtractors View Post
You can't compare the new light truck diesels to the old mechanical diesels. The power is higher, but the maintenance and repair costs are much, much, higher. You also can't compare a diesel to an old carbureted gas engine. I would like to see a real world comparison between a 2016 gas and 2016 diesel in a 1 ton pickup pulling a load.
But they both should be running turbo's...to even the playing field
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:03:08 PM
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Default Re: Diesel pickups... temporary fad or not?

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But they both should be running turbo's...to even the playing field
By 1990 if Chevy could have hung an exhaust grinder on a 454 and kept Dodge and Ford from RULING the towing market for at least the next decade they would have done it. The sorta' hot rod Diesels with the trash cans for exhaust pipes probably will be a fad. Most of the ag industry went Diesel at some point in the sixties, pretty sure it didn't happen because a combine looks cool with a huge exhaust pipe.
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