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Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal


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  #21  
Old 09-16-2019, 07:55:58 PM
Pete Deets Pete Deets is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Soon broadcast TV is going by the wayside. The TV stations want you to go cable or satellite, where they can charge you to view the stations. ...
Andrew I don't know where you got that misinformation but it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!!! Prove to me even one case where a broadcaster sets cable or satellite rates.


Speaking from over 40 years in the broadcasting industry cable is the LAST place we want our viewers to go.

Since the inception of cable systems and master antenna systems the cable operators have captured and then re-sold the free over-the-air signals we have been putting out since KDKA first went on the air.

Broadcasters have no say whatsoever in what you are charged by cable or satellite operators. Up until 1992 whatever money you paid the cable operator stayed with the cable operator. Since then legislation created Retransmission Consent which did nothing but screw up the already tenuous relationship between broadcasters and cable.

The idea of changing power and repacking the broadcast spectrum not once but twice has been the hairbrained doings of Congress and a patsy FCC. We are being shoved, crunched and compacted into an ever shrinking space and still trying our darndest to provide a "Service in the public interest, convenience and necessity" as stated in the Communicatons act of 1934.

PD
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:00:37 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Pete, what actual physical frequencies are the stations in your area transmitting on nowadays? Here some stayed on VHF high but the VHF low ones seem to have moved to UHF 5xx MHz. Low band was better from my perspective.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:24:15 PM
Pete Deets Pete Deets is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Birken,
By virtue of the latest "repack" orders that answer will be changing here in about a month but as of now all the Madison, WI stations are on UHF. We only had one VHF originally in the market - a low V at that - on Ch.3 which got moved onto the 50 when the market went digital. Right now we have 19, 20, 26, 32, 49 & 50.

I don't have the final lineup at hand but I know after the next shuffle we'll have 19, 20, 21, 26 and one will move to 11 (High VHF) and I can't remember where the 6th station will land. That is just our full power station and we have 3 low power stations I can think of.

Yes, Low V will penetrate buildings better but VHF is very susceptible to impulse noise like lightning, spark plug noise, electric motors & such. Many stations that stayed on Low V for their digital channel found out the hard way how long it took a TV receiver to recover and start decoding a signal again after a lightning crash.

Some that moved from low V to UHF cried alligator tears when their electric bills came because to get equivalent coverage they had to change from a 5 to 10 kilowatt transmitter to 50 or 100 Kw....................PD
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:42:39 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

It is funny, I had assumed all ours went to UHF as well but I discovered the two highest power stations had moved from Ch3 and 7 to 25 and 35 but the other high power originals on 10 and 13 apparently stayed right there. Probably a smart move in the long run, VHF high being cleaner than low anyway.
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:17:09 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Pete,the on air broadcasters may not want everyone going to cable,but there are taxes that can be collected that can't be if people are watching for free.The broadcasters can't fix that problem.
In the recent days I have totally lost channel 14 that carried the Comet network. Can't get it on the house tvs or the shop tv with a big antenna. Not much to watch on tv anyhow and Mcgyver was better than nothing.
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:17:16 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Pete, did not realize equivalent coverage power is 10:1. Thought it was double power for equivalent coverage.
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  #27  
Old 09-17-2019, 10:53:30 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
Can't get it on the house tvs or the shop tv with a big antenna. Not much to watch on tv anyhow and Mcgyver was better than nothing.
You have internet. We purchased a Roku. Little thing about size of flash drive that plugs into back of tv. ISP sees it as another computer.There are other brands.

That little thing is the gateway to Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime and a host of other subscription services, but also free services- NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC. Pluto, Vudu...... many more.

We can watch any over the air station, TV show series, and older movies for free. So much stuff that our kids gave us a Netflix card last Christmas and we have not used it. It is better than over the air because we can watch a show when we want to, or binge watch an entire series like The Closer or Heat of the night.....
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  #28  
Old 09-17-2019, 10:55:23 AM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Power I built one of those coat hanger antennas just like the one that you show a couple of years ago. Didn't do very good. Does yours pick up ch.3? Then bought a Moho Air 60 , then made 4 clones and put them in two windows one north , one east on the second floor. I can pick up 9 channels all of the time and 5 more sometimes. Out of the 9 , there only 4 that I am interested in watching. (that is plus the sub channels) The other stupid thing is my 24" picks up the 13 , but my 40" only picks 7 channels , even they are both hooked to to the same antenna and unhooking one doesn't help the other. Ron
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  #29  
Old 09-17-2019, 11:39:08 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by Ronald E. McClellan View Post
Power I built one of those coat hanger antennas just like the one that you show a couple of years ago. Didn't do very good. Does yours pick up ch.3? Then bought a Moho Air 60 , then made 4 clones and put them in two windows one north , one east on the second floor. I can pick up 9 channels all of the time and 5 more sometimes. Out of the 9 , there only 4 that I am interested in watching. (that is plus the sub channels) The other stupid thing is my 24" picks up the 13 , but my 40" only picks 7 channels , even they are both hooked to to the same antenna and unhooking one doesn't help the other. Ron
Ron, we never had channel 3 here.

I made separate ones for each TV. 1st floor TV is near a window, so antenna is hidden on wall behind drapes. 2nd floor is at top of wall above TV. Painted board and coax blend in, only see copper antennas.

Mine picks up the new 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,14,16,18,21,22,23,24,25,27,28,30,3 1,41,43,45,48,50, 55, 61, 62, 68, all the sub channels (5-1, 5-2, 5-3, 5-4, etc) & more that I do not remember. We block out HSN, QV, ads, foreign language channels, kids channels like qubo.

On the 1st floor TV, I run cable to VCR ant. connection, and cable out to TV because VCR has a powerful amplifier. The VCR is not used for anything else, that at amplifier is what saved VCR from being recycled.

The second floor runs direct. I painted wood same color as walls, and used #12 copper wire from a piece of Romex instead of coat hanger wire.
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  #30  
Old 09-17-2019, 01:36:45 PM
Ronald E. McClellan Ronald E. McClellan is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Power Where is here? You must be close to N.Y. and since N.J. is flat you will have much less to obstruct the signal than I have. I am surprised that you don't get any Phila channels. Ron
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  #31  
Old 09-17-2019, 01:43:57 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Power ...put antenna on roof and you'll likely get even more channels.


When I was a kid dad decided to put the 4228 UHF antenna in unfinished attic , shooting thru vertical wood wall. Was so-so,

Didn't take us long to mount it outside the wall, that improved things , but not great.

After we put it up on mast on roof (~ 20ft higher) reception was great.

10 years ago I pushed it ~ 20ft higher ....got even better reception and more channels.

Do have to walk it left and right along roof before mounting to find where signal is strongest....it can vary.
.

Last edited by len k; 09-17-2019 at 02:21:39 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-17-2019, 01:52:50 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Not all of NJ is flat, and i am only 30 miles from NYC and can only get 4 channels, all asian speaking. Only english speaking channel (2) comes in intermittantlly (CBS). I have tried rabbit ears, the coat hanger trick, even a boosted signal antenna with no better results that the rabbit ears. The new signals just suck, that's it. never had a problem til the switch.
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  #33  
Old 09-17-2019, 02:09:41 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Try the 4228 style antenna ....I think you'll be surprised....Its a VERY good little antenna, almost as good as my 8ft dia parabolic monster. Really want to put it outside, and up, though for better results.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:10:41 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

[QUOTE=Power;1605297]You have internet. We purchased a Roku. Little thing about size of flash drive that plugs into back of tv. ISP sees it as another computer.There are other brands.

Hum,I will check it out,does it screw into the antenna cable socket or?
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  #35  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:55:11 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by Ronald E. McClellan View Post
Power Where is here? You must be close to N.Y. and since N.J. is flat you will have much less to obstruct the signal than I have. I am surprised that you don't get any Phila channels. Ron
Wrong side- I am up in NW corner of NJ, about 35 mi from NYC.
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  #36  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:58:16 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by len k View Post
Power ...put antenna on roof and you'll likely get even more channels.


When I was a kid dad decided to put the 4228 UHF antenna in unfinished attic , shooting thru vertical wood wall. Was so-so,

Didn't take us long to mount it outside the wall, that improved things , but not great.

After we put it up on mast on roof (~ 20ft higher) reception was great.

10 years ago I pushed it ~ 20ft higher ....got even better reception and more channels.

Do have to walk it left and right along roof before mounting to find where signal is strongest....it can vary.
.
Len, been there, done that. Had a Channel master on roof with rotator. Over 3/4 century old with back and knee issues to go up ladders anymore. Back won't even let me set up a ladder.
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:57:34 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

I know what you mean , I'm ~ 60+

As simple as it was it took everything I had to mussel up the recent 8ft parabolic 45 ft up off ground ~ 5 years ago.

To put it up .......friend and I put a heavy 25ft steam pipe (2 " dia) I had against roof edge (that was easy), secured it with angle iron bracket I made, and a muffler clamp so it could rotate (aim).
Then I put antenna on 20 ft telescoping mast ( closed up to 10ft) , then made a 2x 6 wood bracket that held that parallel to another 10ft temporary mast ( loosely chained bottom of that extra mast around steam pipe, so it couldn't kickout and tip), made the mast vertical, extended telescoping mast, then muscled everything up steam pipe and dropped telescoping mast into top of steam pipe.....removed temporary guide mast and parelle bracket.

Not sure my back/knees would let me do that again.

-----------------------------

About 5 years before that I put two 4228 UHF ones ~ 20ft over roof.....I measured the roof, calculated and cut all the guy wire lengths.....and attached them...... then we pushed antenna and mast up pitched roof, and just popped base onto roof ridge, then tightened guy wires a little (maybe 4 inches).

Didn't want roof leaks .... so I never nailed mast base to roof ..... eventually a big wind blew those antennas into the old VHF one. (Only guy wires were at midheight of mast and mast pivoted about that point, Vee base slide along roof ridge .)
.

Last edited by len k; 09-18-2019 at 07:52:23 PM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:38:58 PM
Pete Deets Pete Deets is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
You have internet. We purchased a Roku. Little thing about size of flash drive that plugs into back of tv. ISP sees it as another computer.There are other brands.
Hum,I will check it out,does it screw into the antenna cable socket or?
Blue,
The Roku will pull in (stream) the content from your internet service and then can feed an existing TV in the same way a DVD player would.........PD
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:48:31 PM
Pete Deets Pete Deets is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
Pete, did not realize equivalent coverage power is 10:1. Thought it was double power for equivalent coverage.
Power,
I made a very broad statement from looking at many stations actions and you also have to consider that every physical installation is very different. There are many combinations of transmitter power, antenna height above average terrain and antenna gain that are possible.

To give you a feel of the situation in the olden analog days a Low V was allowed a maximum 100 kilowatts ERP (Effective Radiated Power), High V 316 Kw and UHF a max of 5000 Kw. Yes, that was 5 Megawatts.

I'll have to look further but I spoke with my boss & I believe the UHF limit is now 1 Mw.
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:54:02 PM
Pete Deets Pete Deets is offline
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Default Re: Boston area TV stations changed their antennas... weaker signal

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Originally Posted by Pete Deets View Post
Birken,
I don't have the final lineup at hand but I know after the next shuffle we'll have 19, 20, 21, 26 and one will move to 11 (High VHF) and I can't remember where the 6th station will land. That is just our full power station and we have 3 low power stations I can think of......PD
After checking, the TV market here will end up with full power stations on 18, 19, 20, 21 & 26 in the UHF band and the Low V that had been moved to 50 will be moving to High V at Ch 11.

We will also have a low power on 15 and 23. Oh Boy.........PD
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