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Another Twin City


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  #61  
Old 12-09-2016, 01:01:18 PM
Nebraska Kirk Nebraska Kirk is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

I see no need to drill 6 more holes when you only need 3. That is not to say that you should not, just that you really don't need to. The disc won't be out of balance with 9 holes in it versus 12.
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  #62  
Old 12-09-2016, 02:51:46 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Ditto on what Kirk said. You only need 3 new holes drilled in the center clutch disc. The timing gears in your engine are better than the ones in mine. If the bushing and stub shaft for the idler gear are good I'd run it.
That ball bearing on post #58 is a common one. If you replace it with a sealed version of that bearing you can easily eliminate the oil leak problem behind the fan drive pulley.
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  #63  
Old 12-09-2016, 07:10:12 PM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraska Kirk View Post
I see no need to drill 6 more holes when you only need 3. That is not to say that you should not, just that you really don't need to. The disc won't be out of balance with 9 holes in it versus 12.
Duh, i looked at it again and thats right. It will have three sets of three holes done right, equally spaced.

---------- Post added at 07:10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08:29 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider View Post
Ditto on what Kirk said. You only need 3 new holes drilled in the center clutch disc. The timing gears in your engine are better than the ones in mine. If the bushing and stub shaft for the idler gear are good I'd run it.
That ball bearing on post #58 is a common one. If you replace it with a sealed version of that bearing you can easily eliminate the oil leak problem behind the fan drive pulley.
Just got that bearing in today thanks to your thread, mine had a lotta loose.
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  #64  
Old 12-10-2016, 11:29:38 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

I just noticed looking over KevinR's 12-20 thread that the driven disc on his tractor has been re-drilled twice, that may be just the plan.
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  #65  
Old 12-11-2016, 09:49:28 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

I had one of the guys at work do some machining yesterday to fit the new input shaft bearing. He did a great job on the housing, turned the shaft down too far and i have to speedy sleeve it. I think he thought it better to true it up and it was worn a little out of round.
When i took the oil pump apart i noticed the drive gear keys were pretty worn and it turned on the shaft some. After cleanup i see the keyway is worn a lot worse.
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  #66  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:40:06 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Hi Russ
If the keyways on the oil pump shaft are good yet you could install new keys and flip the gear so it drives on the other side of the slot. If you are uncomfortable with reusing the gear the oil pump gears out of a MM Z or R are the same per info shared by Molinegb recently.

Too bad about the input shaft mistake. On that setup the shaft itself is the inner race. My shaft had a bad spot in it also which is why I went with the ball bearing. My personal view is that the speedi sleeve material would be softer than either the bearing race or shaft. I would be inclined to reduce the shaft diameter to the point a 1/8" wall steel bushing could be press fit on the shaft and then finish off the OD so a nice press fit for the bearing race is established.
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  #67  
Old 12-14-2016, 12:22:22 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

I think we have a plan on the input shaft now, tonight was the time to remove a pound of hardened preservation tack from the oil pan outsides. Wow, i had to sharpen my putty knife three times, and that oil pan is STILL heavy. I think you could have buried it in the ground for a thousand years, dug it up, and it wouldn't have a speck of rust on it.
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  #68  
Old 12-14-2016, 09:58:02 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Remember doing the pan on 12-20. Pan on early ones are tin. I must of used a lb of solder repairing pin holes. It is quite light compared to 17-28.
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  #69  
Old 12-18-2016, 10:57:19 PM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Cleaning and more cleaning.
Got the input shaft/ bearing assy figured out and basically done, cylinders are honed / cleaned up. The rear governor shaft bushing had a little wear because the front bearing was in the process of going out, so i drove the bushing out and turned it around. This looks like it will work good for a long while. Second picture is a nail or belting rivet, i suppose, found in the bottom of the timing gear housing of the block. Sorta looked like it went through one of the gears, maybe. Any guesses?
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  #70  
Old 12-18-2016, 11:05:18 PM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Actually, it kinda looks like a pin for something.
I forgot to ask, has anyone here replaced the pilot bushing in the flywheel and if so would you happen to know the size? I'm bent on doing that but hadn't decided wether i'm going to cut out the old one or macine it a lil and sleeve it as we have some thinner brass sleeves handy.
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  #71  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:59:02 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Hi Russ
Looks like you are making good progress. If you were ever going to replace that bushing now would be the time as that shaft isn't removable with out taking the radiator off 1st. McMaster-Carr has a 6.5" length of 3/4 x 1 unfinished 660 bronze sleeve for about $10. The ID and OD would have to be finished.
The only thing I can think of is that the pin was once on the end of the hand crank and fell out. TC used a Mickey Mouse pin retainer in that position. On mine I drove in an appropriate size roll pin and forgot about the lock.
Since your transmission input shaft is out you can easily test the fit of the pilot bushing. A little loose is better than a little too tight. I reused the one in my 17-28.
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  #72  
Old 12-19-2016, 08:24:59 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Thanks Mark, i'll bet thats exactly where that pin came from.
There is sort of a trough along one side of the oil pan mounting flange, looked like the gasket covered it up. Any ideas on the purpose of it? Hadn't really looked that all over yet to see.
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  #73  
Old 01-03-2017, 01:08:01 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Got to spend a little time on the input shaft assy today. The machining on the quill wasn't loose, but it wasn't snug either. I decided to drill and tap two more setscrew holes in it to make sure the bearing outer race did not spin in the quill. Picture one shows how TC used a setscrew in the quill with a hole in the bearing outer race to keep it from wandering. They wired this from going loose with a slot in the outer end. I slotted all three setscrews and safety wired after tightening.
Had to make a new felt seal for the shaft, some years ago i was given some rolls of felt that i use for these. I screw the felt to plywood and holesaw out the sizes i need, if i don't have the right outer holesaw i bandsaw the outer diameter.
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  #74  
Old 01-03-2017, 01:24:47 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

I was asking earlier about the groove in the oil pan flange on the left side. I noticed there are three holes in the mating surface of the block that line up with this groove. At dissasembly i can not remember there being three holes in the pan gasket, but there must have been.
From the parts manual;
Caution; Base pan TW4D has been manufactured with its flanges perfectly plain at the place of contact with the Crank Case. It has also been manufactured with a trough or groove 1/2" deep running its length on one side as a means of oil distribution. This base pan with the groove may be used for replacement on any engine. The one with plain flanges without groove must not be used on any Engine from No. 22560 to 23853 Inc.

From the parts book drawings the pan gaskets look like they have these three holes in them that line up with the holes in the block. These holes are parallel with the three crank mains.
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  #75  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:15:19 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Russ...Does your block have a rifle drilled main oil gallery? When the oil pressure enters the block what route does it take? Is it first diverted into this trough and then the mains are fed up through the 3 holes in the bottom of the block? Looks like a really odd setup to me.
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  #76  
Old 01-03-2017, 11:19:16 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Hi Russ
Just wanted to say thanks for the great thread! It has been real interesting for me because I have never had my 17-28 apart and was wondering what things may be like inside. It still runs nice and smooth and I have no idea when it was last apart. I first found this tractor in 1973 when I was 14 years old. I was finally able to buy it in 1989 when I was 30 from the son of the 2nd owner. This was my first Twin City and the one that got me started into Twin City tractors. The serial number is 22697 with engine number 22842. So built shortly after yours. This one ran a saw mill when new about 20 miles east of me. The 2nd family that owned it that I bought it from used it mostly as a plow tractor about 12 miles northeast of me.
Good Luck with yours!
Jim
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  #77  
Old 01-03-2017, 11:52:09 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider View Post
Russ...Does your block have a rifle drilled main oil gallery? When the oil pressure enters the block what route does it take? Is it first diverted into this trough and then the mains are fed up through the 3 holes in the bottom of the block? Looks like a really odd setup to me.
I haven't looked at it real close, but from what i saw so far these holes in the block are drilled wertical up and then horizontal across to the mains. I hadn't planned on dropping the crank to really check it out, but may do so to clean the passages. I'll have to look through the parts book some more.

---------- Post added at 11:52:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39:25 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Jim Anderson View Post
Hi Russ
Just wanted to say thanks for the great thread! It has been real interesting for me because I have never had my 17-28 apart and was wondering what things may be like inside. It still runs nice and smooth and I have no idea when it was last apart. I first found this tractor in 1973 when I was 14 years old. I was finally able to buy it in 1989 when I was 30 from the son of the 2nd owner. This was my first Twin City and the one that got me started into Twin City tractors. The serial number is 22697 with engine number 22842. So built shortly after yours. This one ran a saw mill when new about 20 miles east of me. The 2nd family that owned it that I bought it from used it mostly as a plow tractor about 12 miles northeast of me.
Good Luck with yours!
Jim
I really enjoy the history of these old machines, kinda funny that we are about the same age and found both of these tractors basically the same year. Took me a little longer to get mine, but its always worth the wait to get a local tractor with some history.
The original owner of mine was a man named Adolph Bartel, farmed with it in the same community where i grew up. Towards the end of its use he used this one on the belt filling the silo, he told my uncle he really thought that tractor was his favorite for that job. I actually used to own an f-14 that Adolph also bought new. It looked like he never got rid of anything until his auction in the 70's when he quit farming, at that time the f-14 also sold but i bought it in the 80's from the guy that bought it at the auction.
I'm still following the other bigger M&M/Twin City that sold the same time as the 17-28, not sure at all what it was for sure. When i looked at it years ago all i remember is that it had wide rear wheels and looked a lot like a 27-44, but my uncle insists it was a 30's tractor. And it was in BAD shape, i remember that. Uncle Dan offered that one to me for 70 dollars but my Dad wouldn't loan me the money. Dad said "why do you want that old stuff? We were glad when we got rid of it."
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  #78  
Old 01-03-2017, 03:22:29 PM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider View Post
Russ...Does your block have a rifle drilled main oil gallery? When the oil pressure enters the block what route does it take? Is it first diverted into this trough and then the mains are fed up through the 3 holes in the bottom of the block? Looks like a really odd setup to me.
Hi Mark
I had heard that some engines had the main oil galley in the oil pan and some had the oil galley in the engine block. If you change oil pans make sure it is matched up to the right style block! The tractors in this time frame had a lot of interesting changes going on to reduce costs.
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  #79  
Old 01-03-2017, 03:33:38 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Russ...Your uncle could be right as the last of the 27-44's were sold in 1935. If you think about it take a picture of the lower left side of the block. I'd like to compare yours to my 1926 17-28.

Our fathers must have been related. He was glad to leave the steel wheeled tractors behind and couldn't understand my interest in them. But time changes perspectives. Now that he is over 80 he was quite tickled to see a running TC 17-28 again.

Our view of them would probably be different if we had to make our living on these old clunkers!

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 01-03-2017 at 07:59:36 PM.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:18:57 AM
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Default Re: Another Twin City

Mark, here is a drawing from the operators manual on the oiling system. Looks like from the oil pump it goes to the front main and number one rod, center main through the crank to number two and three rods and then the rear main through the crank to number four. The trough in the pan lining up with the three holes in the block transfers oil to these three places. Must be the crank is not drilled clear through front to rear.
I shimmed the input shaft in between the thrust bearing and shaft step before i set screwed the quil to the bearing, this took me three times before i got minimal gear lash at the bevel gears, some play but not as much as it had. this was a little frustrating in the cold shop the last two evenings, but tonight i think its assembled to stay.
I have to say that Mark's previous thread on his 17-28 has been very encouraging and has saved me time in guessing on a lot of points and probably saved me some broken parts during disassembly. Add to that the great help and suggestions from others here on this forum and well.....you guys are seriously appreciated and underpaid.
If any of you miss my thanks that would be a great injustice in my opinion.
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