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Port Huron #8430 Restoration


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  #1  
Old 11-21-2009, 12:20:51 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Port Huron #8430 Restoration

It has been suggested I start a thread on the restoration of Port Huron #8430. It is a 19-HP engine I purchased from Edward "Red" Nelson of Darien, WI, in 1993.

The first attached picture shows the engine in its first year, owned by John Strupp of Hartford, WI, belted to a thresher in a barn. Mr. Strupp sent the picture in to the company, and they used it in their 1921 literature, along with his testimonial letter.

The second photo shows a 1996 restoration we did, rebuilding the canopy, new water tanks and painted the boiler. The third photo shows the completed restoration at the Crown Point, IN show.

This engine has a couple of interesting items. The wheels are pretty worn down, an indication of a lot of miles on the gravel roads of Wisconsin during its working life. The second is the built-up flywheel. Mr. Strupp apparently felt the wheel was a little light, and added blocks of steel around the inside perimeter of the flywheel. They are curved to fit, tapped and bolted, and the joints and bolt holes are filled with babbit. The blocks are about 2 inches high and 3 inches wide - really a well-done job. The result is an extraordinarily smooth-running engine. On the separator, there can be bundles thrown in sideways, upside down, on top of each other, or whatever, and you don't hear a thing.

Unfortunately, the firebox is shot. The sheets on the sides are brittle and cracking, perhaps from being fired with the mud built up inside. And across the top above the side sheet/crown rivet row is quite thin. The crown sheet itself is not great, either. So we are constructing a new firebox at Wheatland Machine and Repair in Naperville.

Denny Christiansen and I took it apart in March, and the boiler is still down at his place. It will go to the shop soon, where the wheel flanges and countershaft bracket will be removed. Hopefully we won't have to take the engine brackets off. All else has been removed.

Some progress pictures next.

Tom Runty
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2009, 12:23:58 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Attached are some pictures of the firebox in progress.

Picture 1 is the firebox back head. Picture 2 is the firebox flue sheet. Note the chamfered holes. Our plan is to drive the staybolts on the outside, but weld them inside.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:28:03 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

More progress pictures. These are views of the firebox shell after the stay holes have been drilled. Note we have constructed the shell in two pieces welded together.

This assembly will be placed on the heads from the previous post, and welded from the outside. Then we will cut off the excess and grind smooth.

The holes have been chamfered (finished Tuesday night), so the box is nearly ready to assemble.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:34:12 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Always believing that two are better than one, we are working simultaneously on Jon Gould's engine, #8240 (1919). He also needs a firebox. The final two photos are Jon's firebox shell. We have all the holes drilled, and will probably finish up the chamfering today. Jon's engine has the plowing drawbar option, and at one time had the locomotive cab on it as well. He purchased the engine from John Carey, who bought it from the Heitman family of Manhattan, IL.

That's all the pictures I have so far. As progress continues, more will follow.

Our goal is to try to get one or both of these engines ready for the 2011 Will County Threshermen's Association Show, which will be a Port Huron feature that year.
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2009, 01:32:31 PM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Hey Tom!

Thank you for beginning this thread on your Port Huron! It will be nice to follow the progress. Boiler work can be labor intensive...AFTER you carefully disassemble the engine parts......and then you still have to reassemble it!

Here is your boiler at Denny's back in May. I wondered whose Port it was

If you have the construction papers on it, would you consider posting them? I see only 2 trycocks on the back head so they must not have paid the extra $$$ for the ASME stamp. What do the documents say?

I'll be watching....with flashbacks to mine!

Thanks!

Beth
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:09:04 PM
T James Ives T James Ives is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

It will be good to see how you do things in the States.
Our regs are sometimes easier, more sympathetic and others just as obstructive.
I'm no expert but will drool over your chance to do this.
Our engines are so expensive, being thinner on the ground, being closer to the scrapyards in the fifties.

Trevor
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2009, 10:48:33 PM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Tom.......you say you are planning to weld staybolts on the interior side of the sheets?
Is that an approved plan?

By the way.......beautiful work.......
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:06:07 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Beth,

Tried to attach the build record, but it won't take it right now. Will try again tomorrow. No, it is not an ASME-stamped boiler - the record says "no" in the question of inspection ordered. It also has the 1-1/2" safety valve outlet crossed out, and it definitely has the 1-1/4" outlet.

For the uninitiated, build records for most Port Huron engines are in the possession of Dave Kemler of Stanton, Michigan. He will provide copies for a nominal fee.

Craig,
Welded stays are an approved method - in fact, that's the only way they are commonly done in the modern world. The only people who still pound stays are those of us in restoration work. This engine has two or three staybolts that were replaced by Becker Boiler with the previous owner, and they are welded in place.

Keep the questions coming.

Tom R.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:09:31 AM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Thanks Tom but I know stay welding on the OUTside of the sheets is common practice.
You said you are welding on the INside surface of the sheets.......in the water space as I understand what you wrote.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:43:16 AM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Craig,

No, by inside I mean the inside of the firebox - the fire space, as it were.

Tom R.
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:04:57 PM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Tom,

The next logical question with any major restoration project: How are you storing the parts to make sure they all stay in one spot & go back where they belong?!? I used tags on some of the smaller parts.

Will the state of Illinois give you 175# again when the project is completed?

How do you plan to access the firebox? Will you remove the back head & weld it back on?

Beth
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:08:20 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Beth,

The parts are all in Denny's shed. Mine are in one area, his Advance Rumely parts are next. We didn't take every little thing apart, but lifted larger chunks off with his payloader. There is still a significant amount of paint on all the parts of this engine (as opposed to #7130, which didn't have a stitch of paint left on it), and I haven't decided how to deal with that part of the restoration yet. I may clean them up, put it together and just add a fresh coat, but I have some time yet. But having put two together (mine and Neal Drummer's), it's getting pretty easy to figure out what goes where.

I haven't done the UT grid on the boiler yet - will do that when we get it up to the shop. That will determine the ultimate pressure. I know there is a bit of a thin spot behind the pedestal under the barrel - last time I checked it was .280. But it may only be a pit, or a small thin area that can be pad welded up. The outer firebox shell will be the big issue. I'll be satisfied with 150 pounds on this engine, but if higher, so much the better.

Yes, going in via the back head. I believe the plan is to cut around just inside the knuckle, and then weld on a new back head. A lot of times the areas under the door rings gets wasted away a bit. I don't remember this being a big deal, but again, we'll have to do the measurements.

Tom R.
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Old 11-22-2009, 10:39:30 PM
Jon S. Gould Jon S. Gould is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Well, Tom got the ball rolling here so I might as well join in.
My boiler went through the U.T. grid inspection and came out with very good numbers overall, with the exception of the crownsheet, which was very thin. Based on our experience repairing boilers it seemed to make more sense in the long view to replace the entire box instead of just replacing the crown. As Tom said,the plan is to remove the backhead and pull the old firebox out that way. Having this open will give us access to the entire boiler and allow us to pad weld or patch as needed.We made the decision to weld the staybolts on the fireside because of the difficulty of hammering in such a tight place. This approach will allow us to make a staybolt with only a short threaded area on one end. These will be inserted from the firebox out and then turned to extend far enough to hammer down into a nice head. The fireside holes have been chamfered out to allow 100% penetration with almost a smooth surface on the inside. It has been helpful that we a complete set of drawings for these boilers and everything should line up fine. We should have these fireboxes complete this winter, and with this work done the replacement should go pretty quickly. We plan to leave all the engine brackets on the shell and remove only the brackets neccesary to access the staybolts, this should make reassembly somewhat easier.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:42:26 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Here is a grate pattern for 19 Port Hurons that is near completion. Will put a finish of oil on it when we are satisfied that it is ready.

Tom R.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:15:46 PM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Finished sample grate from the pattern. Cost is about $125.00 per grate plus a one-time setup fee of $400 (to mount the pattern on a board, along with gate and risers). We are trying them with ductile iron instead of gray iron, under the theory that they should be more heat-resistant. This adds about $4.00 to the cost of each grate (34 pounds at $.12 per pound, included in above pricing). Work is being done at the Winnebago Foundry in South Beloit, just this side of the Wisconsin line (the right side of the cheddar curtain, as it were).

Tom R.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:55:15 PM
Reeves1917 Reeves1917 is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Hi Tom where are you having those grates poured.

John Gallahue
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:13:54 AM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

Winnebago Foundry in South Beloit.

Makes a guy wish that he could iron in the back yard easily...
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:43:05 AM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

John,

The foundry in St. Anne still does piecework, too. We've used them several times over the years with good success, and they are a lot closer to you. This is the first time we've had work done by Winnebago, but so far, so good, and they are a lot closer, especially to where I live.

Tom R.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:13:36 PM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

I would not try ductile iron grates as they have a lot of steel in them and steel burns and warps a lot easier then gray iron just my to cents worth
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:29:39 AM
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Default Re: Port Huron #8430 Restoration

no iron contains steel, but all steels contain iron.

the difference between grey iron and ductile is the shape of the graphite particles. ductile has sperical (nodules) graphite and grey iron has sorta flakes of graphite.
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