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Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb


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  #1  
Old 06-29-2019, 10:32:54 PM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Hello,

New to the forum. Hoping to learn a lot and contribute when possible.

I picked up a kohler 20R0P61 Spec:13300A28 for a great price and Iím looking to get it back into operation as a standby unit at my home.

My main concern once I can get it running again is making this function as a true standby and start on its own in the event of a power loss, which I was told this unit was wired as such when removed.

Upon removal of the control panel cover I noticed that terminals 3 and 4 did have wires attached that have been cut and taped in the same manner as the line voltage lines, so I can assume they were hooked up. Just curious if these have something to donors the standby operation.

Any info, manuals, and schematics would be helpful.

Rob
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:34:21 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Since time immemorial, Kohler wires 3 and 4 are the remote start wires.

Hook them together and it starts and runs. Unhook them and it stops running.

Any good automatic transfer switch expects this and will work with it.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:46:38 PM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Perfect! I expected as much. Thanks for the info!

---------- Post added at 10:46:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44:45 PM ----------

Also. I was trying to upload photos from my
iPhone, but I’m not having any luck. Any tips?
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:50:08 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

When replying, scroll down to Manage Attachments, and click on that. Then you should see the options for uploading photos.

Welcome to The 'Stak!

Keith
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:19:30 AM
LWB250 LWB250 is online now
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birken Vogt View Post
Since time immemorial, Kohler wires 3 and 4 are the remote start wires.

Hook them together and it starts and runs. Unhook them and it stops running.

Any good automatic transfer switch expects this and will work with it.
Not to pick nits, but...

That's as long as the master switch is in "Auto", of course.

And not all "good" transfer switches will work with it. They've got to be a two wire start transfer switch (as opposed to some competitor's three wire start systems.)

Dan
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Old 06-30-2019, 12:05:12 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Do the three wire control transfer switches not maintain the "run" contacts for the duration that the set is commanded to run? Or does it work more like the "start" position on a key switch. Maybe once it sees power it drops the contacts? Never studied those before....

Keith
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Old 06-30-2019, 12:10:25 PM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Quote:
Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
Not to pick nits, but...

That's as long as the master switch is in "Auto", of course.

And not all "good" transfer switches will work with it. They've got to be a two wire start transfer switch (as opposed to some competitor's three wire start systems.)

Dan

Thanks for the info. Noted. Any particular ats you would recommend? 200amp
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:18:33 PM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Do the three wire control transfer switches not maintain the "run" contacts for the duration that the set is commanded to run? Or does it work more like the "start" position on a key switch. Maybe once it sees power it drops the contacts? Never studied those before....
I can't speak for all 3 wire start transfer switches, but the Onan LT switches that were ordered from the factory as 3 wire start weren't compatible for 2 wire start without modification. I think the ASCO 165 or 185 series transfer switches could easily be configured for either 2 or 3 wire start.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:15:34 PM
LWB250 LWB250 is online now
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Onan three wire start transfer switches used a ground signal to start and stop the unit, if I recall correctly. Terminals were 1, 2, 3, B+. This allowed them to provide over crank protection in the ATS in some applications. It also provided battery charging through the B+ wire as well.

OT, LT and AT switches used this as I recall, and offered a couple different battery charging options, none of which were great. I can remember replacing 2A plug in card style chargers pretty regularly.

If you wanted to interface with a two wire start system with one of these you had to get a two to three wire start converter. It was a hardware option in some, a plug in card on others.

Dan channeling his former Onan field experience....
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:29:50 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjalbright3 View Post
Thanks for the info. Noted. Any particular ats you would recommend? 200amp
Asco makes good ATSes that arenít locked into any particular genset manufacturer. You can also get used zenith ATSes which used to be the barebones ATSes out there. There are many other options too.

You also need to know if you need a service rated ATS or not. If youíre installing the ATS between your meter and your main panel, then you need a service rated ATS which will have a main breaker in it. If youíre installing the ATS between your main panel and a subpanel that will have your emergency loads, then you donít need a service rated ATS so a ďregularĒ ATS without a breaker will work.

Note if you go with a service rated ATS as described above, youíll have to split (separate) the ground and neutral busbars in your main panel since the ground-neutral bond needs to be in the ATS where the new main disconnect breaker will be.

Bill
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:41:44 PM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

So Iím already in need of some help.

Iíve got the unit setup for test fire in my garage and the unit wonít turn over.

Iíve tried the automatic setting and engine test setting and I hear clicking occuring like itís attempting to crank, and Iím seeing about 9-10amps when it does this, but Iím getting no rotation. The motor appears to be free as I can get some movement out of the crank.

Iím wondering if the genset is corroded in some fashion that isnít allowing it to freely rotate the engine.

Any tips or things to try would be greatly appreciated.

Rob

---------- Post added at 10:19:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16:45 PM ----------

Edit: maybe the engine is stuck? I can’t turn the crank with my hand. I don’t have a socket big enough to turn it with a wrench.

This unit ran about 2-3 years ago.

Any easy ways to check / free up the motor?

---------- Post added at 10:41:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19:57 PM ----------

Ok. So I dug around and found a 1 1/2 socket and I can in fact turn the motor at the crank with no problems.

Tried to start again with same result. When attempting to crank my battery voltage is dropping to 10-11 volts. Are my batteries no good or is it drawing so many amps trying to start that it’s dropping the voltage so much?
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:01:23 AM
LWB250 LWB250 is online now
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Is this a rotating armature set? I believe it may be.

That is, does it have a separate starter motor on the engine, much like you would find on an automobile?

If it's a rotating armature set, you've got to have a battery or batteries capable of substantial amperage to crank, as rotating armature sets are horribly inefficient when it comes to cranking, as they're using the generator field windings to do the cranking. You can't use something like a Group 24 automotive battery to crank them - it will never produce enough current.

Let us know on this - also if you have anything indicating the original battery setup. If rotating armature, it was probably multiple batteries in a series parallel setup.

Regardless of the type of cranking, cables, terminals and connections have to be of proper size and clean and tight. The slightest loose connection can make the difference between cranking or not.

Dan
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:58:27 PM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Thanks for the info. My genset most definitely cranks the engine using the generator itself. I did narrow down my issue to weak batteries.

Iíve purchased two brand new interstate 1000cca batteries that Iím hoping will be up to the task of cranking this beast in the winter.

That said, I hooked the new batteries up about two weeks ago in my shop. Lack of time hasnít enabled me to mess with it until tonight, and I attempted to crank with no result.

Something in the system is draining the batteries. Is this normal? The unit did have a battery tending charger attached to the control panel, but I assumed this was since there were no alternator to charge the batteries.

Any ideas where I could look? Nothing is hooked up currently as Iíve just been bench testing until I get it all squared away.

Plan B was to try and fashion a battery disconnect, but Iím having a difficult time in making a disconnect work, and still have it automatically start in the event of an outage.

Thanks
Rob
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:14:08 AM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

There is generally going to be a small load on the battery due to the controller. Older controllers with all relays didnít always do this, but the newer electronic controllers are essentially always active, so they use some power.

Regardless of the controller you have, it is standard practice to have a battery tender on the batteries of any standby genset. Kohler makes a little 10 amp one that I think is around $50-60 from the dealers that I like to use (itís very small, potted, and I have them over ten years old that still work just fine).

Bill
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:45:46 AM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

I would assume like anything there is a small load. But this seems like something larger then your average vampire drain.

In two weeks time it has dropped two brand new high cca group 27 batteries to 7 and 11 volts respectively.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:34:47 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

If it’s a 1A load, two weeks is 336 amp-hours, enough to deeply discharge a good size battery. Typical “big” CCA batteries are something less than 100Ah each. Probably quite a bit less.

We’re not talking about an LED load here. You really need a tender.

That battery that’s at 7V is surely damaged, and will probably never recover full capacity. The 11V one is a “maybe”. Make sure to get the 11V charged up soon, you don’t want them sitting in a discharged state like that.

Bill
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  #17  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:22:27 PM
Rjalbright3 Rjalbright3 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

So my Perkins has developed another problem. I have a fuel leak that appears to be coming out of the injector pump. From what I can see it seems like itís coming from two lines and the base. I can only assume itís old / bad seals, but Iím looking for some guidance as to what my options are in terms of sourcing parts / sending it off and having it repaired.

Thanks
Rob
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2019, 09:21:49 PM
jack0 jack0 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler - Perkins 20R0P61 - Newb

Sourcing parts should not be a problem. The cav pumps were used in a lot of applications. I bought a reseal kit through my local Massey Ferguson dealer. The cav pumps are fairly simple to work on. The kit came with everything you need. A lot of U-tube videos on the subject.
If you are only resealing the top end, the pump can stay on the engine. If you want to do a thorough job, the pump has to come out. Most likely the base gasket or the throttle-shutdown shaft o-rings are leaking. The fuel supply and return lines on my pump use rubber compression ferrels on the flanged line ends. Maybe you just need new rubbers.
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