Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® General Discussion > Smokstak Down Under
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Smokstak Down Under For Australia and New Zealand Smokstakers to meet, greet, yabber and yack.

Smokstak Down Under

Hornsby-Akroyd


this thread has 55 replies and has been viewed 4702 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-04-2017, 11:49:56 AM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Hornsby-Akroyd

Guys,
Last week I spoke to a family member who told me about a Hornsby-Akroyd Serial 8382 which is on a farm about 1800km round trip from my house and they say it is still fairly intact but it is taking up to much space and must be removed. The owner wants to get rid of it and I want to preserve it so we are in some negotiations at the moment.
I would love to know what year she is and approximate weight if I am going to do the trip to fetch her. Need to do some planning because the farm is many kilometers away from anything.
I tried to search for a register where I can find the age but I am unable to find anything at the moment.
Regards
G
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-04-2017, 06:16:47 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,121
Thanks: 2,131
Thanked 2,023 Times in 988 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Hello G,
I think the fellow you are looking to talk to is Ray Hooley from UK?
Ray has the company production records that will carry the detailed info on each serial number sent out.A net search will find him if his name is mentioned along with the Hornsby Akroyd brand,or perhaps someone here will have a web address for Ray?
If you ask the now owner to look for you on the closest edge/face of the cylinder sleeve that faces the crankshaft,the engine number and bhp will be stamped there.If you return here with that information it might help?The other factor concerning weight would be to ask is the engine a portable or stationary type?
Looking at the serial number I am guessing that the shipping date might be somewhere around the middle of 1904?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:11:22 PM
Winchester Winchester is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 956
Thanks: 160
Thanked 441 Times in 243 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Hello G ........as a matter of interest is Andy Self still around , a good person to know he has done some very good restorations in your country . I wonder if he is still in Elgin?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:33:31 AM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Thank you for the feedback. As far as I know it is a stationary engine because the owner's son told my cousin it will be a challenge to get the engine out of it's current position. Sounds at least that she is under roof so hopefully little rust (that area only get about 102mm of rain a year) and I might be able to "carry" her out piece by piece.
Will investigate further and send an update.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gcm For This Post:
  #5  
Old 12-05-2017, 04:42:27 AM
Craig Gillingham Craig Gillingham is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 462
Thanks: 300
Thanked 532 Times in 235 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

I think it'd be great if you could take some photos of the engine as it is before you remove it. I like seeing photos of engines in their original location, mounted on their original concrete base.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Craig Gillingham For This Post:
  #6  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:44:48 PM
isandian isandian is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 359
Thanks: 423
Thanked 341 Times in 166 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Ray Hooley's email is: ray hooley @ gofornet. net. uk. (remove spaces).
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:47:02 PM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Thanx to everybody for feedback and advise. I got feedback from Ray Hooley today. Below his reply. He also has publications and engine transfers available for those who are interested.
----
Hornsby-Akroyd No.8382, rated 8hp, was sold to agents Reiners von Laer & Co - and was dispatched to Port Elizabeth (South Africa) on 30. 3. 1904. Unfortunately, Hornsby never published weights of complete engines. The only weight that I have is for the flywheel, which is 14.5cwt for the 8hp engine.
If required, I can supply a set of H-A publications for £38, including postage.
I can also supply new engine transfers:- 5.75”diam....£8 each, 7”diam....£10 each.
++++
I wonder how they shipped such a heavy piece of equipment the 800km to the farm in 1904 where it was doing duty for so many years.
Hope to have a call with owner tomorrow to finalize getting my new toy ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:40:08 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,121
Thanks: 2,131
Thanked 2,023 Times in 988 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

I suppose by now G you realise that the flywheel in kgs is going to be around 730,or close enough to 3/4 of a ton?
I'm probably not the best source of advice on these things,having gotten it very wrong in the past?I would plan for a total weight of around 2000 up to 2500kg?
I did always think Aus was a big patch of land until I got comparing to the African continent.An Aussie shaped biscuit cutter will make many biscuits when chopping into an Africa shaped pastry if the size comparison is right.
My mates wife is from Sth Africa and she was able to help me with the mind shift to see the big distances there.
I once had a similar mission to yours to accomplish here.I made some rough weight estimates and took off in a 1 ton ute(bukki) pulling tandem trailer.
The drive was 20 hours one way,also for Hornsby Akroyd rescue btw.
In the first 20 mins of the 20 hour home journey I concluded that I was grossly overweight,and was getting ready to make the newspaper or the evening news with a nasty road trauma headline.
I crawled to the nearest motel and returned to the previous owner in the morning where we halved the load.
It was almost another 3 months before I was able to get myself organised for another 40 hour round trip for the other half of the load.
It's up to you now boyki,to get it done and try not to break anything.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-17-2017, 01:45:41 AM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Hi Paul,
Thank you for your reply. Very good advise you gave me because grabbing my 4x4 and a 3-ton trailer was exactly my plan. I know with 2.5t on the trailer I need to get some weight on the 4x4. I was planning to take the flywheel off and load that on the 4x4 but with +-700kg it would be almost over limit already on the 4x4. The trailer is duel axle and weight distribution that side should be fine. Sounds I need to ask a friend of mine to tag along with another 4x4 and trailer ;-)
I will only be able to finalize with the owner after the 24th, when the onwer's son will be visiting his parent's farm and send me some pictures of the engine and the area around it to see how easy it would be to load.
Looking at pics it seems possible to split the cylinder part from the base which could help a lot if I have two trailers.
Regards
Gert
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-17-2017, 04:42:16 AM
Darryl Darryl is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Gunbower, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 842
Thanks: 268
Thanked 826 Times in 396 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Hi, in my opinion you don't want to take off the flywheel as its been set nice and tight all this time and I wouldn't disturb it, and i definitely wouldn't take the cylinder off. If you need to break up the load, take the big end off the rod, the main bearing caps off and take the whole crank/ flywheel assembly carefully out( note the timing marks on the skew gears and bearing brass positions).You can pull the piston and rod out because you will need to clean the rings anyway.Also remove any loose caps etc. and the drip oiler for traveling because sometimes they fly off or break.

---------- Post added at 07:42:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38:01 PM ----------

Also , before pulling the piston out , pack heaps of rags in the end of the piston because as it comes out of the bore it has a tendency to drop down and the con rod can break the piston skirt.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-17-2017, 04:49:36 AM
typak typak is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,612
Thanks: 1,936
Thanked 3,307 Times in 825 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

If the trailers loaded correctly with enough weight on the tow ball you won't need anything on the back of the 4x4, I haul all the time a trailer with 2 to 3 1/2 tonne machines no problem with nothing much in the back of the ute.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:52:02 PM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Some time has past but I have my Hornsby-Akroyd home. My initial thought when I saw it for the first time is that it is in a bad state. After a good pressure wash and all the wasp nests out of the rear of the piston I have a different view. One thing is for sure and that is there are lots of work. There are parts missing and I am still working on a list.
Attached some pics. Oh yes and I could get no reason from the farmer why somebody decided to amputate the crank. This is obviously sad but needs to be repaired because the serial on the crank and the body do match.
Unfortunately I had no choice but to break the motor down in three manageable pieces to be able to load on my trailer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180122_071714.jpg
Views:	282
Size:	73.6 KB
ID:	301824   Click image for larger version

Name:	20180122_071731.jpg
Views:	303
Size:	73.3 KB
ID:	301825   Click image for larger version

Name:	20180127_102925.jpg
Views:	260
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	301826   Click image for larger version

Name:	20180122_111505.jpg
Views:	295
Size:	75.4 KB
ID:	301827  
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-31-2018, 08:30:02 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,121
Thanks: 2,131
Thanked 2,023 Times in 988 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

What a lovely sight in the mirror all the way home Gert!It would need to be both hands on the steering wheel though,with a lump like that in tow.
8hp in that form is likely to be a neat 9" bore I think,and a whitemetal bigend shell in that model.I see the fuel pump gauge is still with the engine,hanging beside the pump.
That oxy cut is nasty,but you did very well otherwise.You will come up with a plan for a repair in due course I'm sure.Overall it looks like a very promising project.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-04-2019, 03:59:37 AM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

At last my Hornsby's crank has been repaired. What a huge task just to get the crank out of the flywheel first. My own lathe is way to small for the job and finding a Engineering shop willing to do the repair was a mission on its own. Eventually I got to a Engine Engineering shop and even they said "no" it can't be done. Luckily for me, the owner an old guy probably in his 80's and still active at his own shop, asked me about the task on hand. He also initially said "no" but after I draw him some diagrams on how I would tackle the job, if my lathe could handle it, he thought about it and said "YES" it can be done. Well attached are the prove that the old crank is ready for action again and waiting for me to de-rust all the other parts. This is going to be a long project ;-)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190108_104043.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	72.0 KB
ID:	329909   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190130_145108.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	53.7 KB
ID:	329910  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to gcm For This Post:
  #15  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:18:51 AM
gcm gcm is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Does anybody know how the fuel pump look inside. I found it is rusted and piston is stuck inside. I have tried a few de-rust options with no luck so far. I am to scared to take it to the press and maybe damage the brass casing. Maybe last resort is to drill the piston out and make a new one ? I am not sure if the sleeve in the casing goes strait through ?
Any ideas ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190210_101543.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	38.0 KB
ID:	329911  
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-05-2019, 01:24:27 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,121
Thanks: 2,131
Thanked 2,023 Times in 988 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

You have been busy Gert!And having lots of fun no doubt!
Don't be frightened to get the whole thing hot.Do that and then if it persists with being stuck drown the thing in kero or whatever your favourite penetrant is,for a night or two letting it soak,then repeat the whole procedure until you detect some movement in the plunger.When that happens you know you have won.Nice and steady from there though.Whatever rust and carbon stopping it from being withdrawn can be flooded out with more penetrant while you work it to it's limits back and forth.
I will try to add a sectioned drawing here later from a book of the pump.
If it has a sleeve then I am guessing that might be a rebuild at some stage?
Whatever size the plunger shaft is,that should be the standard plunger size for that hp,from one end to the other.
There is not a lot happening inside the pump as far as that goes.
Plunger bore should go all the way through the pump body.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-05-2019, 07:12:59 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,121
Thanks: 2,131
Thanked 2,023 Times in 988 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

This pump may differ slightly Gert,but the basic layout inside regarding the plunger should be very similar.I'm not sure if the drawing is of a pump from a UK built portable Hornsby,of if it is to do with a U.S. Built De La Vergne engine?
Despite minor differences it's a Hornsby Akroyd drawing.Hoping it helps?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	117.3 KB
ID:	330020  
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:39:53 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,050
Thanks: 1,633
Thanked 2,053 Times in 558 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Richardson View Post
Don't be frightened to get the whole thing hot.

Hi Gert,
Paul might be a little relaxed with his statement. My number one weapon to destroy a bronze casting above an angle grinder, sledge hammer, press etc is simply heat.
If you heat the bronze fuel pump to much, you may easily destroy it. I don't like to heat a bronze casting. Maybe warm it, but its a very fine line - just be careful how much heat you apply.
Regards,
Wayne
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:12:12 PM
Darryl Darryl is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Gunbower, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 842
Thanks: 268
Thanked 826 Times in 396 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Electric heat guns are good
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Darryl For This Post:
  #20  
Old 03-05-2019, 06:20:24 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,121
Thanks: 2,131
Thanked 2,023 Times in 988 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby-Akroyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Timms View Post
Hi Gert,
Paul might be a little relaxed with his statement.
Regards,
Wayne
Not at all Wayne.
I like to take particular notice of who it is that I am advising before I offer a certain direction with advice.That part is often more important than the detailed advice itself.
Safe to say Gert will likely be 'very ok' with the torch.
See post #15.,...fourth sentence.

Having said that,i would be reluctant to agree regarding the unintentional or accidental destruction of bronze,if that is supposed to mean 'it can happen easily,..using say moderate heat'?
I think we are talking some serious misbehaving at weld/melt temperatures with a good oxy setup,considering the heat transfer properties of bronze, to hope to cause damage to a casting that size?I can only speak from my own experience.I have successfully flame welded a small number of bronze items,castings etc,as well accidently destroying some.
I agree there is a 'fine line' there somewhere,but I wouldn't describe it as 'easy to find',especially down in the low or moderate temps.Far from it in my experience.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Hornsby Akroyd Dusty Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 4 02-02-2013 07:41:31 AM
Hornsby Akroyd Engines Bob Geyer Smokstak Down Under 19 01-10-2011 07:42:39 PM
Hornsby Akroyd goes home jelbart Smokstak Down Under 9 03-07-2010 08:33:17 PM
Hornsby-Akroyd Pix Patrick M Livingstone Antique Engine Archives 0 03-13-2003 08:32:57 AM
Hornsby-Akroyd Patrick M Livingstone Antique Engine Archives 0 03-22-2002 10:19:34 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14:08 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277