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Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod


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  #1  
Old 01-22-2018, 10:40:41 PM
larry bee larry bee is offline
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Default Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

I am not a welder but can get by. I have welded on cast iron useing cast iron filler rod and it works great. I am doing something wrong. When the weld is done there appears to be small air holes in the weld. That is okay for just putting a part back together but if you are trying to make it leak proof it is not good. I am using flux maybe to much don't know maybe not the right amount of heat. Any suggestions.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:05:30 AM
sunshineman sunshineman is offline
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Default Re: Welding with cast iron filler rod

Hi there
Try doing it with nickel electrodes (manual arc)
Heat parts to cherry red to eliminate all impurities , you should get strong, porosity free welds that are water tight.
Important vintage cast iron may not weld with any process , carbon, sand , etc being present in a high percentage
Test in an area not viewed.
Sometimes cold repairs are the only option-metal stitching, plastic metal fillers, etc.
Regards sunshineman
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2018, 09:14:32 AM
I like oldstuff I like oldstuff is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

With gas welding you have to grind through the 'bark' of oxidized metal on the surface before you weld to expose the clean shiny metal. Are you using the correct flux for it? The typical white powdered brazing flux won't work.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:26:51 AM
Old Iron Dave Old Iron Dave is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Take a look at Cronatron 211 rod.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:34:53 AM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Acetylene welding with cast iron rods is basically recasting the metal, it can be textured and is almost undetectable. Any nickel or brass will be obvious. I don't know a cure for the porosity, I've been told not to use a grinding wheel to prepare, use a carbide burr, wheel leaves abrasives in the metal.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:05:53 AM
Kirk Taylor Kirk Taylor is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry bee View Post
I am not a welder but can get by. I have welded on cast iron useing cast iron filler rod and it works great. I am doing something wrong. When the weld is done there appears to be small air holes in the weld. That is okay for just putting a part back together but if you are trying to make it leak proof it is not good. I am using flux maybe to much don't know maybe not the right amount of heat. Any suggestions.
Larry,
I am not a welder either, so take this for what it's worth. I've been using cast iron filler rod to torch weld on occasion for a number of decades. There are a few things I've noticed regarding the porosity. First, there was rarely, if ever, a time when I didn't see at least a few tiny "bubbles" somewhere in the weld. They typically are just bubbles and don't go through. Second, too much localized heating on the weld created irregularities in the bead. Bringing the casting up to a bright red heat at a very minimum alleviated much of trouble. Third, using a reducing flame and never allowing the inner cone to contact the weld or surrounding metal seemed to help with the porosity and also reduced the number of hard spots. I also try to flux the entire weld area as soon as there's enough heat to melt the flux and keep plenty of fresh flux on the rod and ahead of the bead. Using wide vee's, avoiding "box canyons", and flowing the parent metal ahead of the filler all help in creating a uniform weld.
Hopefully someone that actually knows what they're doing will give proper instruction.

Kirk
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:37:41 AM
Mitch Malcolm Mitch Malcolm is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

I have done quite a bit of it first use a carbide burr to vee out the crack and go all the way leaving about a 1/8 gap , use the gray high temp flux and most important you have to have a absolute neutral flame I use a # 009 tip on most welds or a 7 for thin metals but i find the neutral flame is the big key.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:43:53 AM
dependable dependable is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

NIFE-CI stick welding rod works for cast iron in many applications. Stands for nickel ferrite, cast iron, I believe. DC positive or AC. They are pretty expensive..
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:12:10 PM
Kirk Taylor Kirk Taylor is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Malcolm View Post
I have done quite a bit of it first use a carbide burr to vee out the crack and go all the way leaving about a 1/8 gap , use the gray high temp flux and most important you have to have a absolute neutral flame I use a # 009 tip on most welds or a 7 for thin metals but i find the neutral flame is the big key.
Thanks, Mitch.
I've been all over the place with flame characteristics to see what worked best. The next time I weld, I'll go back to a neutral flame and see what happens.

Kirk
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:32:43 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

If you want a strong repair, braze or metal stitch.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:35:37 PM
larry bee larry bee is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Forgot to mention Act gas weld. Using a red powder flux. What is a neutral flame
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:44:30 PM
LCJudge LCJudge is online now
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

PALCO 808 (Precision Alloy Company) Rods are great arc welding rods for cast. They weld easily, have a coloration very similar to cast iron (unlike nickel) and are easily machinable. I like them if its something like a bracket. For a cylinder or head crack, I like the old time cast iron torch/stick welding. The rods are about 1/4" square and 16 inches long. When I've used these I use Borax as flux. I agree with JB that its best to use a carbide burr as you won't be left with any contaminants from a emery stone. For welding a cylinder or head, you have to heat the entire item to a temp of probably 1200 or so. I'm no expert by any means, just a hobby shop welder. But, my dad was an expert. He was a certified ship welder, although he only did this for a few years after he got out of WWII. I learned a lot by just watching him......wished I had paid a bit more attention at the time!

http://palcoweldingsupply.com/808.html

I don't work or own stock in PALCO so this is just being passed on as info. My Dad wouldn't use anything but them for arc cast welding and I always thought Dad knew about as much as anyone regarding welding.
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Last edited by LCJudge; 01-23-2018 at 05:21:02 PM.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:52:01 PM
Mitch Malcolm Mitch Malcolm is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Larry a neutral flame has a very round tip in the center part of the flame .
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:56:29 PM
larry bee larry bee is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Thanks I will try that tonight
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:32:37 PM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

For a neutral flame increase the acetylene until you get the feather in the flame. Back it of until the feather just comes back to the cone.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:57:51 PM
Greg Mosley Greg Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Greetings, Far as I am concerned welding cast with SMAW and nickel is taboo due to the high carbon content. Magnaflux the repaired area and that will shed the truth. Can you say spider cracks?!? Enuf Said.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:49:10 PM
Langes Machine Shop Langes Machine Shop is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Borax is a good flux for steel but does not do well on cast iron. You need a high temp flux for cast iron.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:17:25 PM
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

There was something that was mixed with the Borax.....but, I never paid attention to what it was and as a result have used straight Borax. What would be the best Flux to use?

I purchased some commercial cast welding flux from a Miller Welding company store but to be honest, I had better luck with the straight Borax than I did their product. One of the best torch cast iron welder's out there was Jerry Abplanalp from KS. Jerry used to make up his own concoction that contained some Borax and 3 or 4 other ingredients. Jerry gave me a cup full of it once and it worked the best of any flux I've used. However, I never got the receipe from Jerry and he's no longer with us.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:44:49 PM
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Wayne A Thackery Wayne A Thackery is offline
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Cast Iron Mike's up around Seattle Washington uses this flux for welding cast iron. Mike is in his 80's and knows his stuff! Very reasonable.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:58:25 PM
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Default Re: Welding With Cast Iron Filler Rod

Thanks Wayne. I haven't heard of that flux but will certainly try to get some and use it.
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