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Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines, Steam Boats Antique steam engines, their boilers, pumps, gauges, whistles and other related things that make them run.

Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines, Steam Boats

Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)


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Old 05-14-2016, 11:32:36 PM
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Default Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

I would like to present to everyone a 1921 17 HP Sawyer-Massey Owned by Jim Bucknall of Campden, Ontario. Jim has given me permission to provide some details, pictures and videos to everyone.

Jim has rebuilt Boiler #4399 and mounted engine #4476 to have a complete operable Steam Traction Engine. The original Boiler was registered in Ontario with a CRN of O.648 in 1921.

I have had the pleasure to submit a Design Registration Package for a new CRN with the local Jurisdiction Safety Authority. It has been a long process but well worth it when you see the Unit running on a head of steam.

I would like to thank Onkel G. and Mr. H. Kuret for introducing me to Mr. Bucknall as my client in this endeavor back in 2014. When I started restoring antique machinery over 10 years ago as a hobby I never dreamt that I would be able to apply my Engineering knowledge to Elderly Iron such as this. Thanks for your encouragement Rick (please feel free to add to the history of this Boiler that I may have missed).

I have to also thank Mr. R. Mosher of the Ontario Steam Heritage Museum for many useful discussions regarding Steam Traction Engineering. Finally thanks go out to Dr. R. Bryce for his discussion back in 2014.....it takes a Village!
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Old 05-15-2016, 12:01:06 AM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

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Old 05-15-2016, 05:12:55 AM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

Steven,
Thank you for this thread and for the great images. There is not too much I can add to the history of the machine. I remember seeing this engine at auction going back thirty years ago. It was at the Shillinglaw estate auction that was held near Uxbridge, Ontario. Mr. Young, who still lives not too far from Jim Bucknall was there and bought several smaller JD tractors. I had known Mr. Young and his family through business connections. He was quite interested in the 20-40 Sawyer-Massey gasoline tractor that was in the sale and bid heavily on it. Mr. Byers from Orillia ended up with the highest bid on that one and Mr. Young ended up buying the S-M steam engine. He already owned an operating 20 hp Sawyer-Massey engine. I don't think Mr. Young ever did much with the 17. The 20-40 Sawyer-Massey is now owned by the above mentioned Mr. Kuret and so both of these Hamilton products are back in this area!
The 17 had been a project engine I think between Mr. Shillinglaw and Mr. Vincent Riddell. Vince Riddell (sorry if the spelling is wrong) was the Bob Oliver of the day when guys were resurrecting some of the old engines. He was a certified boiler repair man and you will see his work on a number of original boilers. I believe the butt strap boiler was rescued from a dry cleaning plant and they started but never finished the job of mounting the machinery from the original engine on to that boiler. I was told that the original boiler was the one that was eventually used as a cut-open display that used to be at shows but maybe that is not correct?
I am looking forward to seeing the 17 in action. Jim has put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into getting the old gal back into service and into certification. He has a couple of fine young grandsons coming along and they will keep the engines running for many, many years. Jim has been one of the best steam engine restorers around as evidenced by his two beautiful 20-22 Waterloo engines and now the Sawyer-Massey. He and Irene and grandson Shelby probably put on more steam hours than anyone in Ontario as at least one of their engines is in steam most every weekend at some local event.
Steve, your expertise was of great importance to that project. I think we have you started on a whole new career path!
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:34:53 AM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

G, there was a 17 S-M that sat up in Maxwell for many years. It could be seen from Highway 4 in the village sitting beside a shed. It was apparently owned by a Mr. Young. The engine just disappeared many years ago, but was thought to have been moved to a local barn. Would this have been the same engine?

The cut away that is in the Ag Mausoleum is apparently my grandfather's 17. Grandpa had sold it to a gentleman in the winter of 54-55 whose farm bordered Camp Border [now Base Borden]. He had a pig farm, and was acquiring the kitchen scraps from the Base, and was going to steam them to use as slop for the pigs. The engine went through a barn fire at that farm. Somehow it wound up at Mr. Riddell's place. The plan had been to cut apart the boiler sheeting, and use that in the restoration of another 17 boiler. Not sure if this ever happened. It used to frequent Steam Era as a cut away, then found it's way to the OAM. Not sure what ever became of the assorted bits and pieces from that engine. I saw it sitting in a pile beside the shop at his father's place at Baldwin where the family engines were kept. His welding shop was on Davis Drive East in Newmarket.


R
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:40:22 AM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

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Old 05-15-2016, 10:46:50 AM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

Beautiful engine!
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Old 05-15-2016, 11:16:50 AM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

Great to see this project finally finished.The Sawyer will fit in nicely beside both of the Waterloo's.John
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Old 05-15-2016, 12:19:10 PM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer-Massey 11-22 View Post
G, there was a 17 S-M that sat up in Maxwell for many years. It could be seen from Highway 4 in the village sitting beside a shed. It was apparently owned by a Mr. Young. The engine just disappeared many years ago, but was thought to have been moved to a local barn. Would this have been the same engine?

The cut away that is in the Ag Mausoleum is apparently my grandfather's 17. Grandpa had sold it to a gentleman in the winter of 54-55 whose farm bordered Camp Border [now Base Borden]. He had a pig farm, and was acquiring the kitchen scraps from the Base, and was going to steam them to use as slop for the pigs. The engine went through a barn fire at that farm. Somehow it wound up at Mr. Riddell's place. The plan had been to cut apart the boiler sheeting, and use that in the restoration of another 17 boiler. Not sure if this ever happened. It used to frequent Steam Era as a cut away, then found it's way to the OAM. Not sure what ever became of the assorted bits and pieces from that engine. I saw it sitting in a pile beside the shop at his father's place at Baldwin where the family engines were kept. His welding shop was on Davis Drive East in Newmarket.


R


The cut away boiler is still at the OAM or Country Heritage Park in Milton in the steam Barn/exibit.Thanks for the history on it Robert i was only aware of the Museum/OSAPA history on it.John
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Old 05-15-2016, 05:45:39 PM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

Here are a couple of images of the cutaway. The one is taken in 1964 at Steam Era. That is Dalton Curran with his hand on his waist. The other two was the day the new owner took delivery of it, January 1955. it was steamed on the farm on top of the Niagara Escarpment south of Collingwood, then roaded 10 miles to Creemore, then roaded from there to Angus by the new owner.The second picture is of it coming to the stop sign in Creemore.

R
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Old 05-15-2016, 09:35:15 PM
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Default Re: Sawyer-Massey 1921 17 HP O.648 (#4399 Boiler & #4476 Engine)

Talked with Jim tonight. He doesn't have too much history on the engine either. He thinks Mr. Shillinglaw got the original engine from the Ottawa area. Mr. Riddell found the better butt strap boiler in a dry cleaning plant though we don't know where at this time. Jim knew a chap in the Niagara area who ran a dry cleaning plant and he said they ran their boiler at 15# so they didn't need inspections or engineer.
When Mr. Young bought the engine at the sale 30 years ago, it went directly to the Niagara area and was stored there. I saw it there before Jim bought it and it was in a shed and was so covered with assorted wood that you could barely make out the engine. So Mr. Young had never done anything with it. Shillinglaw/Riddell started the change over to the butt boiler and it wasn't an easy task as the mountings were very different for the machinery, especially with the two speed set-up. Jim and Shelby had to do a lot of work to get that all set up and the motor and gears all aligned. I was with them a couple or three years back and we visited Carlyle Searson, a Sawyer-Massey man through and through. We brought home the frame work for the rear hitch and deck and some other parts that were not with the engine.
There are a few 17 hp Sawyers around but not many with the butt strap boiler. I believe Bob Oliver has just finished fitting a new boiler to a 17. The 20 hp Sawyers were the more popular engine here - good for both threshing and saw mill work.
It is all good fun isn't it!
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