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Machine Shop and Tool Talk

Re: How it's Done 3-5


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  #11  
Old 08-08-2015, 01:34:19 PM
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Question Re: How it's Done 2-1

Cylinder boring; Blind bores & oddball setups. 2-1

Some of you readers have discovered that Iíve got a lot to learn, especially you who have been reading about compression ratios. So your comments & educational wisdom are more than welcome in my ďHow itís DoneĒ thread. This is meant to be educational & encouraging to those who may be interested in taking up the cylinder repair business.
This kind of work is an everyday routine around here; Goggle has been good to me. Besides, small bore cylinders are not usually done in automotive machine shops.


Besides being a blind bore; this cylinder is bare aluminum. Bare bore aluminum cylinders in many engines is common in lesser grades of mowers & industrial power plants. There is also an assortment of outboard motors in the mix; fact is aluminum bare cylinders are cheaper to manufacture.

Extra care must be taken when dealing with bare aluminum bores. The cylinder needs to be honed extra smooth. The skirt clearance is also more critical since it is usually much closer. In the past, outboard motors & small 4-strokers have had such large skirt clearances that the finished bore dimensions were not as critical. Recently we received an outboard Tuhotsu block which is fit as tight as a Japanese cycle engine.
We are starting to require a piston along with the block to double check the skirt clearance.

When we blind bore a cylinder, the finished bore size must be achieved as close as possible. Depending on the type of cylinder block the finish hone can be very tricky & difficult to obtain. Special honing mandrels are necessary to hit the dimensions all the way to the bottom.
Some of the larger bore outboards are fairly easy to hit final dimensions with a Sunnen or Lisle mandrel. We NEVER use an EGG BEATER, Break cylinder hone for finish bore sizing.


This is an example of a mandrel which is set up to do a blind bore on our Sunnen connecting rod hone.


Examples of typical hones commonly used. Of the 3, the only one capable of precise sizing is #2. #2 is an Ammco brand or clone.


Cylinder honing & glaze breaking the difference; Glaze breaking is just what it says, removing the glaze & returning the typical cross hatch pattern for oil retention. Glaze breaking is not Cylinder honing; too many people consider the operations as the same.


The Brush hone; the Plateau hone
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Old 08-08-2015, 01:42:04 PM
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Question Re: How it's Done 2-2

Ball hones & brush hones, Dingle Berries as I call them; these tools are useful in 2-strokers for port champhering. Plateau honing is a new term to us Old Timers. Plateau honing is the technique of a final cylinder finishing & removing any remaining metal chips in the bore left by typical cylinder boring.

The Cross Hatch; the real reason for the Cross Hatch, either ID or OD. The pattern of cross hatching is useful in maintaining an accurate bore diameter from end to end.


Sunnen hand held hone


Lisle hand held hone


This block is an example odd ball set ups


This block is an example of a blind bore
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Old 08-08-2015, 01:58:17 PM
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Question Re: How it's Done 2-3


While not a typical blind bore, this cylinder has a step at the bottom which causes the same problems. This cylinder is also very clumsy & too heavy to be sized with a typical horizontal con rod hone.

The answer with my BAD BACK is hanging it from the ceiling. I quit hunting some years ago & use the old dear hanging block & tackle to create a trapeze for mounting heavy cylinders. Itís so easy to flip the cylinders back & forth for measuring purposes.

Another example of hanging a heavy cylinder while honing




We use torque plates for chucking unusual cylinders & cylinders which shouldnít be press chucked from the bottom.

Thatís all folks; stay tuned your comments & inputs are more than welcomed.
JT ďOld DogĒ www.smallenginemachineworks.com

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Old 08-09-2015, 10:36:23 AM
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Photo Re: How it's Done 2-1

Howdy Friends; ďHow itís DoneĒ 2-1 is posted, take a look
JT
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Old 08-14-2015, 03:42:56 PM
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Photo Re: How it's Done 3-1

How itís Done 3-1
A lot of you folks read the thread but Iím surprised that there arenít any questions? Iím overwhelmed of the diversity in the stak website. I had no idea of the interest in the really OLD equipment that you folks collect.

At Small Engines we do nothing but cylinders & special sleeve installations; mostly racing 2-strokers but a lot of vintage equipment. As ďHow itís DoneĒ progresses Iím sure that some conversations will follow along.

The Secret if there is one; cylinders need to be Round & Straight, proper finish honing is the key. A good set of measuring tools needs to be in the rollaway. Good Dial bore gauges are now easy to come by the internet. I usually have 2 or 3 of them available for different projects; the last price was a whole $62.00, what a deal.










Good micrometer prices go all over the place; How deep are your pockets?

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Old 08-14-2015, 03:54:35 PM
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Photo Re: How it's Done 3-2

I was excited to find this machine a few months ago from the www.alibaba.com web site. Alibaba is the oriental version of Google for machinery or anything else for that side of the pond, give it a try. As they say; Try it youíll Like it.



After the machine was uncrated, we pulled off the wrapping

At first glance everything looked wonderful

After searching for some time I found what seemed like just what I needed. All of the US made vertical hones are designed for full sized automotive types of equipment. The model 9808 has a table mount more like a drill press, perfect for single cylinder small engines. After watching Utube for a week or so, I started to contact the manufactures of this machine. As it ends up it would seem as though the Chinese machines are manufactured all over the country & sold by factory representatives. The first rep that I found seemed just fine & the price seemed workable. After everything was worked out, I ordered the hone which was supposed to arrive in around 50 days. Never assume anything while ordering from people who you donít have a working relationship with. It was assumed that this machine would be a turnkey piece of equipment (WRONG) ope:

1. Consider & use Pay Pal for your off shore purchases; itís worth the extra cost since the currency exchange is adjusted & taken care of. Anything besides Pay Pal is a real pain.
2. I assumed hone heads to 100mm would be included.
3. No kind of mounting fixture was supplied
4. The T-slots donít fit any of the mounting kits which we use

After a couple of our T-nuts were milled to fit the slots, we were ready to set things up and go to work.
I started to cut up 2x4ís for mounting since we didnít know what the set up would look like. We first blocked up an old 305cc Honda cylinder for a test run.


The set up looks rather Cheezy but it worked for a start.


After searching around more I found another vender who was willing to help with the items that first vender let me down on; they also took Pay Pal ďYEAĒ so the payment problems are eliminated. It was agreed upon that a mounting jig would be built & supplied. (More Money). As the bachelor that I am, Iíd lay awake nights thinking about what kinds of fixture that we could make to grab & hold the cylinders to hone. It started by mounting a couple of 1Ē threaded rods to the table. We then went to the front office & helped our CAD man design the rest of the mounting jig. The jig is very simple; after drawing up the shapes which seemed correct, I headed off to another friendís place that has a CNC torch burning machine. The finished parts look rather clean in an oval shape. The jig is so simple, we merely clamp the cylinders between the 2 jig halves & tighten it up.


This is a good shot of what the Old Dog really looks like.

Last edited by John Tice; 09-11-2015 at 02:40:18 PM.
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:03:50 PM
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Photo Re: How it's Done 3-3


Itís unbelievable how simple the new mounting fixture is. After adjusting the height for the stroke of the machine, the cylinder is centered in the jig & clamped down.
The new hone is extremely accurate with rapid stock removal. Itíll save mountains of time while maintaining very close accuracy.


Dominic our intern is measuring a See-Doo cylinder

All of the missing parts have finally arrived, we also fit a Sunnen hone head to the machine by drilling 1, 8mm hole. The people in China kept telling me that a Sunnen head wouldnít work or fit on the machine. A little Yankee ingenuity is all it takes to do most anything around the shop.


Sunnen Head

This is a picture of the hone heads which finally came with the machine

The sizes run from 25mm all the way to over 100mm so we can hone any of the large thumper cylinders
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:14:55 PM
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Photo Re: How it's Done 3-4

Our large mounting fixture; A Harley cylinder with a torque plate clamps rite in.

Lastly; this is the mounting fixture which came with the machine

This is a Blaster cylinder using the multi stoned Sunnen head & the factory mounting fixture.



The last little bit is finished off on the Rod hone with a long stone 3 point mandrel which guarantees that the cylinder is round & straight. We don’t do much here at Small Engines but what we do, we do our best to be the best. None of us can do everything; All of us can be good at something (Stay Focused)

I’ve accumulated most of the equipment needed to do our work; I think it’s time to purchase a Go
Kart & spend some quality time at the track. Grandson will be 6 years old this month & it’s time to do some more bonding

Stay Tuned “Old Dog”

www.smallenginemachineworks.com

Call me most any time till 9:00 PM Pacific 503-593-2908


Last edited by John Tice; 08-14-2015 at 08:25:04 PM.
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Old 08-14-2015, 05:36:56 PM
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Default Re: How it's Done 2-1

I instantly recognized the blaster cyl. I just finished putting a .060" over Namura piston in one. I hope that chin piston won't break so I set clearance at .03mm.

The engine went into a YSR50. Hee he,, it easily goes 80 now.
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Old 08-14-2015, 06:10:08 PM
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Default Re: How it's Done 2-1

Very informative. I've always sent my machine work out to get done but never actually saw how any of it was accomplished.
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