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Onan LT II Transfer Switch JB 7.5


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  #41  
Old 10-08-2017, 10:58:05 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

Leon, what you did back in the blizzard in the 1970's is what I did during Hurricane Irene and Sandy, but the neighbors were my tenants. Worked very well, just took time to setup when the power went out. I think I can simplify things a bit using an ATS. I just need to figure out how under the circumstances outlined earlier.

Wayne, I need to "take ownership" during the power outages. Yes, I am the landlord and property owner. If I don't provide power during extended outages I will be the one to loose especially if I provide only myself power.

The following can and will occur during extended power outages if I don't provide for the house and tenants.

1) When their fridge goes without power and defrosts, it will leak and can go through the floor into a tenant's room below. This HAS happened one time in the past. Initially I though a pipe broke, but it was only the freezer part of the fridge that defrosted and leaked. In addition, if the tenant's food goes bad due to no electric, I know they will try to collect from me although I point out in their signed "rental agreement" that I will not be responsible and they are encouraged to apply for renters insurance. I can tell you I never had a single tenant apply for renters insurance. My relationship with my tenants ids very good and they always pay on time without reminders. Also, all my tenants have been with me for for several years. I don't want to upset this relationship.

2) No power, no heat or AC depending on the season. If there is no heat, the pipes can freeze and break. That is a major $$$$ for repair although I do all the plumbing (5 bathrooms, 3 laundry rooms, 3 kitchens, and heating system - hot water baseboard).

3) If power goes out and if their rooms become uninhabitable due to excessive heat or cold depending on the season, they will have no choice to go to a hotel or where ever there is electric for their needs. That could be expensive and without doubt they will try to deduct their expenses from their monthly rent. I hear about this all the time. I am a member for the past 16 years on a popular landlord forum on the web too and there is discussion on this from time to time.

There may be many more reasons, but I got to get leave now to do a welding job for a landscaper's mower that broke down due to metal stress cracks in the frame.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #42  
Old 10-08-2017, 12:52:54 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

You would need to check with your AHJ, but one possible solution would be to use your ATS only to start and stop the plant. Then each tenant's dwelling would be fitted with a two pole, double throw contactor. This would be enclosed in a suitable metal electrical box. The normally closed contacts would be supplied from the tenant's panel. The normally open contacts and the coil would both be supplied by the generator, NOT the ATS. The tenant's emergency loads would each be supplied by the common from their respective contactor.

YOUR dwelling could be supplied directly from the ATS, as normal.

Looks like I missed a few comments on the previous page. What I proposed is essentially what Leon has outlined.

If the contactors are rated for the voltage and current involved, the circuits are all properly protected, and the enclosures are all electrical enclosures, there is absolutely no reason the installation should not be allowed. They make nice enclosures with a built in back plate, specifically for this type of service.
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  #43  
Old 10-08-2017, 12:58:29 PM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

I think the only difference between your LTEU ATS, and the 100 amp CL unit is the amperage rating of the contactors. IIRC, the LTEU models were available between 30-200 amps. The only difference would have been various options such as battery charger, exercise clock, meter package, 2 wire to 3 wire converter, etc.

I remember being darned thankful that the LTEU series had connectors for the wiring between the enclosure and the door. For their size, those switches were heavy due to all the transformers mounted on the door for the plug-n-play voltage selector. They were a lot easier to handle during installation if the door was removed.

During the era that these were manufactured, it seemed like Onan was trying to standardize everything. The LTEU switches were all the same dimensions between 30-200 amps. At the time, the OT series switches between 150-400 amps were 30"Wx60"Hx16"D. It looked ridiculous to have a 200 amp service with a transfer switch that big. In some existing buildings, we couldn't use an OT switch because there wasn't enough available wall space to install it.

I posted on a recent thread regarding an Onan Techstar generator. Some years ago, one of our customers inherited one along with a 225 amp OT switch with the dimensions listed above. The guy was an avid outdoorsman, and his garage was full of hunting equipment. We were standing in the garage discussing the matter. After explaining to him why he didn't want that free Techstar installed in his back yard, I laid out the transfer switch dimensions next to his 200 amp panel. I joking told him that he probably wouldn't be able to resist the urge to use it as a gun cabinet. It was THAT big!
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  #44  
Old 10-08-2017, 01:21:26 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

I have long wondered why most transfer switch cabinets are SO MUCH BIGGER than the stuff inside of them!!

A gun cabinet lol, that's great! Just be sure to lay a sheet of rubber over the switch first.
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  #45  
Old 10-08-2017, 01:22:07 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

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Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
...Wayne, I need to "take ownership" during the power outages. Yes, I am the landlord and property owner. If I don't provide power during extended outages I will be the one to loose especially if I provide only myself power...
None of my previous landlords were as accommodating as you seem to be. All of them required renter's insurance as a condition of tenancy. None cared whether I had electricity or not.

To me, the most straightforward solution is a large (maybe 30+ kW) generator set and 3 suitably rated transfer switches. Parallel the 2 wire start leads, feed the normal source from each respective utility meter, the emergency source from your generator. Various disconnects may be needed to allow maintenance isolation and NEC compliance.

It won't be cheap, but your outage related problems go away. Even if the tenants decide that everything they own should be an "emergency load". You may have to consider a surcharge for each day you supply standby power.
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  #46  
Old 10-08-2017, 02:43:51 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

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Originally Posted by Wayne 440 View Post
None of my previous landlords were as accommodating as you seem to be. All of them required renter's insurance as a condition of tenancy. None cared whether I had electricity or not.
Wayne, I think the difference may be that this house is owner occupied. Some times I feel like a babysitter, but to be honest the money is good. If I could roll back time 25 years, I would have invested in at least 2 more multi-unit dwellings. As long as your properties are in reasonable condition and in good locations, you can make money. With my current situation, my tenants pay my mortgage, insurance, and utilities. Basically, I live here for free, but not much more.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #47  
Old 10-08-2017, 05:49:02 PM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
If I could roll back time 25 years, I would have invested in at least 2 more multi-unit dwellings.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
I'm not a landlord, but one of the most important things I learned from my friends in the business it to NEVER invest in a rental property with less than four apartments. Inevitably one apartment will be empty when tenants move in or out, and you still have the revenue stream from the other three to pay the bills.

If I were you, I would add a transfer switch, either manual or automatic, to each tenants power panel feeding a small sub panel. The sub panel would power the critical circuits that would be switched over to generator power: The heating system, refrigerator, overhead and stairs lighting circuit(s), and possibly power to the natural gas range. This would give each tenant heat, lights, hot and cold running water, refrigerator, and stove for cooking. The high power appliances such as washer, dryer, microwave, dishwasher, toaster, toaster oven, coffeemaker, room air conditioner, and so on would be unavailable until the return of commercial power. Then I would install ONE outlet in each apartment, fused at say 5 amps, that would allow the tenant to charge his cell phone, tablet, electric razor, run the cable modem, computer, router, small TV, radio, alarm clock and so on. But plug a hair dryer into it and OOPS, no power. You would be doing more than 99% of the other landlords.

You might consider wiring your 7.5JB for 120 volts only if you can. That way you would have 62 amps available to share with the tenants without worrying about overloading one of the windings.
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  #48  
Old 10-08-2017, 09:16:26 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

Here you go - https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172504

This and 3 transfer switches and you are set.
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  #49  
Old 10-09-2017, 08:56:26 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

Tonight I was playing in the garage with the JB and the ATS. I have no idea what I'm doing, but I think I'm making a portable ATS that can be rolled to different locations and setup at anytime just as the JB is ready to do. Basically it functions like this: The ATS will be plugged into the utility's 240 vac such as through an electric dryer outlet or stove range or whatever outlet. In my case it will be my mig welder outlet. Temporary electrical cords will be plugged into the side of the ATS as seen in the attached pictures and the electrical cords will be temporarily routed to where they are needed. In my case, each of the tenant's dwelling may get one 120 vac 15 amp line.

Before a major storm my tenants and myself can prepare and plug their fridge, lamps or whatever into their electrical cord's outlets. While the utility power is still up it will feed power through the ATS and to the tenant's dwelling. When a storm hits such as a hurricane or major snow storm and the utility power goes down, the ATS will sense there is no power from the utility, wake up the JB, the JB will feed power to the ATS and through the lines to the tenant's dwellings. When the utility power is restored, the ATS will detect power from the utility, automatically shuts down the JB and retransfers power from the utility to the tenant's dwelling. The best part is no one has to be home for this to happen as the ATS will function as it should. Also, since this arrangement will be setup in advance of a storm, there will be no need to go into panic mode to setup everything during a nasty-azz storm when the utility goes down. No need to make any electrical modifications to the house wiring that may violate electrical codes. After the storm you simply roll the JB and the ATS into the corner of your garage and forget about it until next major storm. Anyway, there is still more to do. Does this make sense or did I lose it ?

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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Last edited by JohnnyC; 10-09-2017 at 09:13:01 PM.
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  #50  
Old 10-09-2017, 09:06:11 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Onan LT II Transfer Switch / JB 7.5

I would like to have something similar able to be set up for either feed from utility and a generator or 2 generators. If you have the stuff, why not have fun with it?
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