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Onan 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram


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  #1  
Old 11-09-2017, 06:35:21 PM
Bill Aggenbach Bill Aggenbach is offline
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Default Onan 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Ser No. D880112365

Just acquired this for a friend of mine. Need to test and make run.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Bill
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:53:39 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

You have a BGE spec E

Manual numbers and link to them

BGE spec f-k---NHE-spec e-k--EMERALD PLUS--SERVICE--(9-94)--- 965-0528.pdf .... don't think they printed manual for spec E, last one was for spec a-c

BGE (A-E)---BGEL (B-D) --PARTS---965-0232 Emerald I.pdf

http://www.twinslan.net/~n0nas/manuals/onan/


What's it's problems , no AC??

If not making AC unplug AC voltage reg and measure rotor ohms thru slip rings, should be 20.25-24.75 ohms. And not grounded.

If that is good I hot wire engine to run , with reg unplugged, apply 12VDC ( car bat) to brushes. Should make 40-50VAC out the T windings , 55-60 out the Q windings.

Last edited by len k; 11-09-2017 at 08:02:23 PM.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:26:10 PM
MBB MBB is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Can you post a picture of the model number? That doesnt look right?
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:10:07 PM
Bill Aggenbach Bill Aggenbach is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Len

Just acquired. Generator mounted on cart with wheels. I have to put a battery in it and clean slip rings (120 ohms rotor resistance). Spec E still has a transformer in it. Previous owner have reconnected the output to 120/240 and added a low voltage fuse holder for one leg and kept original CB for other hot leg (breaker now has only 1/2 the current). looks like housing can hold 2 breakers. Will be looking for some of these. After cleaning slip rings I will test first before spending money and time on it.

Bill
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:19:49 PM
Bill Aggenbach Bill Aggenbach is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Attached is picture of model tag
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:10:58 PM
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

OK here is the build sheet and the wiring diagram.
The model number (FJ) designates the new voltage code but the build sheet is the old codes. Can get confusing.
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File Type: pdf 40BGEFJ30981E.pdf (32.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: pdf 611-1176.pdf (185.8 KB, 11 views)
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:43:27 PM
Bill Aggenbach Bill Aggenbach is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Thank you for the fast reply. Having a resource like makes it a lot easier to work on this equipment.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:46:26 PM
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

No problem. Were you able to find the manuals?
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:02:21 AM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Aggenbach View Post
slip rings (120 ohms rotor resistance). Spec E still has a transformer in it. l
Very odd I could swear only spec A,B, C had ~ 8inch current transformer by the starter for voltage boosting under load.

Odd I thought rotor ohms were closer to 17 (have to read manual) , not 120 ohms. Maybe slip rings need cleaning. Try cleaning slip rings with schotchbrite pad.

Can you post pics of the gen and transformer.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:08:43 PM
Bill Aggenbach Bill Aggenbach is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

MBB: Yes I found manuals. I am using the 965-0530 service manual since it uses a transformer for AC voltage regulation.

Len: I have attached a picture of transformer.

Thanks for the interest.

Bill
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:49:08 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Yes that is a current transformer for boosting voltage to maintain votlage as you increase load.

965-0530 service manual is the correct one, (I looked in Onan's list of manuals 932-0112D for BGE spec E.)

Guess I stand corrected, looks like specs A-E, not A-C, were current transformer "regs" according to 965-0232 parts manual for BGE spec A-E
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:58:03 PM
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Not Hijacking the thread but have a question about the transformer for len k.
You say the transformer boosts power under load. How does that work? Does the generator put out a higher voltage and the transformer step it down?
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:58:34 PM
Bill Aggenbach Bill Aggenbach is offline
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Primary has two coils, each coil is in series with 1 leg of output. Varying current through each coil changes voltage in secondary that then goes to field. secondary has taps that can be manually selected to set output voltage to field which then regulates output voltage.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:43:00 PM
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

Motorhead....... No, short answer is transformer senses increased load amps and uses it to add voltage to rotor. That overcomes magnetic issues in rotor/stator to maintain 120 output.

Long answer....
Without compensation, as draw more amps out the 120 V windings, stator voltage drops due to mostly magnetic issues **. Amps in stator likely make a reverse mag field that bucks magnetic field of rotor, thus drops overall magnetic flux. Remember voltage out a winding is proportional to rate of change of mag flux. So Less mag field = less flux = less flux change= less voltage. (hint: magnetic/electric analogy: mag field is like voltage, flux is like current).

AS add 120V load then voltage would drop. So to maintain 120 output a current transformer is added. It senses load current and adds the right amount of voltage to increase rotor voltage (and resulting rotor magnetic field to try to keep total mag flux from dropping). Taps are a trial and error way of picking the right amount of rotor voltage increase. This "trimming" is done at factory to compensate for production line tolerance variations between gens.

I say voltage booster, not voltage reg since current transformer can only increase voltage, not decrease it ( as you would want to do during load dump or high rpm). Electronic reg and magnaciter can reduce high voltage during high rpm (higher rate of flux change).




** I've seen these voltage sags and they are pretty severe. I ran my similar 7NHM with fixed 36VDC applied to rotor since it's electronic reg was dead. Got ~ 125V at no load, dropped to ~ 100 V at only ~40-50% of rated kw , eventually got it down to ~80V and still was not at gen's rated kw output ( my killawatt meter faded out at ~ 70-80V)

Last edited by len k; 11-10-2017 at 11:18:28 PM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:36:34 PM
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

I think I got most of the explanation len. You are quite the electrical wiz on these series sets!
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:13:18 AM
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Default Re: ONAN 4BGEF J30981E Need Production Order and Wiring Diagram

It's a cross between physics class and 8 page crude info sheet from a old magnetics company sellling steel laminations from the 50's. I had to design a mag drive for a tuning fork instrument once (gyro). Wasn't happy with the crude 8 page info presentation.
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