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Multi-Cylinder Stationary Engines and Power Units Waukesha, Buda, Climax, LeRoi and others.

Multi-Cylinder Stationary Engines and Power Units

Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought


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  #1  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:34:58 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

I have a small flathead four cylinder engine – maker unknown. However there are some unusual features on the little engine, perhaps kind reader you will recognise and identify the maker.

- To give an idea of the engines size - the flywheel measures approximately 300mm, say 12" diameter. The cylinder head is 410mm long (16"), spark plug centres 95mm (3 3/4') so bore somewhat less than this.

-Barrel crankcase i.e. crankshaft can only be fitted from the end.

-There is no sump, just a sheetmetal cover plate. What looks like a separate cast iron tank for oil (below magneto).

-Finned exhaust manifold is part of the block.

-Removable head.

-Carb is Mayer Carburettor Co. Buffalo, New York.

-Magneto: Severn HT4, USA.

-Engine mounts? Not a lot....there are the two square-head screws on the rear face of the block at mid-level and the snout of the timing cover has a machined outside diameter.

-Cone clutch.

-No starter motor.

-Priming cups fitted on side of cylinder head.

- Spark plugs (KLG A30) are 7/8" - 18 TPI.

-Threads and hex sizes are probably American rather than British (not 100% sure yet).

-Spigot on head looks suitable for short arm-mounted cooling fan, driven from magneto drive extension.

Thanks for any help!
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:59:17 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

More photos of the little engine:
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:15:53 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

More photos, hope these help someone to recognise this old timer.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:22:42 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

I asked the same questions and posted the same photos about one year ago on the TOMM forum - no one recognised it....so I thought I would try the Smokstakers

http://forums.tomm.com.au/index.php/topic,2842.0.html
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:06:38 PM
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Dwayne Fuller Dwayne Fuller is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Peter, Interesting old engine. You may get more response if you post this in the antique truck section on smokstak.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:15:25 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

That's the third finned-exhaust inline that's been on here...the first, in one piece, some time back and perhaps in AU (it had a portion of the fins ground off to make room for what was guesstimated to be a distributor replacement)...the second one, disassembled, very recently...I don't believe either got a definite ID, but I haven't tried to bring them up...
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:27:02 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

I have no clue... but it's definitely COOL!

The 'character' suggests that it's older than say... 1928... and although it doesn't have any obvious 'features' that make it so, it kinda looks 'marine'.

I dunno if Caille ever made a four like this, but the crankshaft removal cover setup just kinda looks Caille'y...
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:39:52 AM
Richard H. Gambrell Richard H. Gambrell is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Many, many years ago, I looked at a Studebaker engine and that kind of reminds me of that one. It has been 45 years ago, so I can't say for sure.
Richard
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:17:24 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I haven't looked yet for the other similar engines posted here (thanks Bud), will do so.

Richard,
this engine is pretty small - e.g. cylinder head is only 16" long - a bit small for Studebaker?
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:32:41 AM
coyote62ny coyote62ny is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

this could be an old inboard marine engine.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:17:47 PM
nblack nblack is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Agree with the consensus. Definitely looks marine. Dry sump, maybe had the external water pump driven by the accessory drive in front of the LT magneto? Interestingly, the intake manifold is cast into the block. Another thing I noticed is that the plugs are two piece, which puts it in the range of years as a Model T, (I think). The sprocket has me baffled, though, unless it was part of a double chain coupling. Which seems kinda out of the rest of the engines supposed time period. What are your plans with it? Is it even still loose?
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:16:41 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Would a marine engine have a cone clutch?

There doesn't seem to be any corrosion in the water pipes (e.g.salt water cooling).
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:29:30 PM
JerryLee JerryLee is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

I am thinking very early aircraft engine. (Dry sump, chain drive)
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:05:49 PM
gootsch gootsch is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

It is interesting that there are no obvious motor mounts.
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Old 09-21-2014, 10:26:26 PM
SteamfanMN SteamfanMN is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Did you ever find out what this was? Very neat engine!! I wouldn't mind finding something unique as this. Could you possibly look up engines that used that carb? Or search by something unique to this engine? Like that cone clutch or dry sump.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:00:35 AM
SteamfanMN SteamfanMN is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

While highly unlikely I would like to suggest maybe some sort of rail speeder engine? I don't know why it would be dry sump though if it is otherwise I'd say marine application of some sorts.
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:40:38 AM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Hi Steamfan,

I haven't found out any more on this engine, I was hoping someone would recognise it, but not so far...

I have tried searching on the Mayer carb and the Severn mag, but haven't found any list of users so far.

I didn't find anything much about the magneto.

The carb search turns up more info, e.g. an advert from 1913 and one or two for sale.

Also a website which features carbs for the Ford Model T - seems like there were a lot of carburettor manufacturers out there! The Mayer carb for the Model T is arranged differently, but looks to use the same basic design.

Quote: This is a Mayer. They are an interesting carb. This one is restored and running and for sale. It is one of the self regulating type, it has five little brass balls that raise off their seats to regulate the air flow and mixture. Very well built, higher quality than many of the carbs are.


http://www.strombergof.com/Other_Carburetors.php
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:42:16 PM
SteamfanMN SteamfanMN is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Hey Peter I did some more searching and found a marine engine with a couple similarities. That chain sprocket was perhaps for starting it seems since there is no starter or crank start from the front.

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discu.../3433/7689.jpg

Perhaps someone will know now. Still a long ways to go but I think marine is the right track.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:54:57 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

Do put this on oldmarineengine..Richard Durgee there is a mine of old marine engine info; if it's US marine, he'll probably know it---I believe he posts here, but may not've seen this...
If the marine end doesn't pan out, you might do a little research on CycleCar engines...the 1913 carb ad puts it in the right time period for them, and some quite small 4cyl's were developed for those builders that wanted something smoother than the usual MC engines...
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:21:59 PM
Craig Gillingham Craig Gillingham is offline
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Default Re: Small Four Cylinder Flathead Identity Sought

It appears to be out of a Dayton cyclecar. I'm guessing it's only about 2' long overall, still, it must have a bit of weight to it if it's all cast iron.



The photo came from here:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1914-Day...YAAOSwkEtbWNoj
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