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Farm Pumper


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  #1  
Old 06-09-2016, 10:24:10 PM
Phil Dowe Phil Dowe is offline
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Default Farm Pumper

Hello everyone. As there has been a bit of "chat" about farm pumpers,I thought I would add my bit. I have various ones,some not restored,and I really do like to keep them authentic. You will tend to get these blokes at a rally,who tell you that a particular part,say carbie,did not go on that vintage or make of engine,or some such thing!! I have started restoring a pumper,that does really not have any make identification. The mag is a Wico EK and it sits on a bracket under the fuel tank. Not out the other side. There is no makers name on the flywheel,but in large letters,on the face is SPARK,not just a line! The detent pivot point is also a bit different. On some there is a three eight rod protruding from the housing,with a flat side, to give the correct adjustment this one does not have that. What I am really looking for is a manual,for this particular engine. I have F&J,and SX ones,but they do not show this configuration. I think in one of the old TOMM mags there was an article about all the differences in the makes and vintages of these engines.Can anyone please help? Regards Phil
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2016, 10:32:24 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper

Hello Phil
Like this one? If so, then Buzacott.
Is there a number in the arrow?

Cheers Scott



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  #3  
Old 06-10-2016, 03:11:38 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper

Our Buzacott does not have the number in the arrow but it is clearly stamped on the end of the crank shaft. Everything that Phil described is the same as ours but ours has a rotary magneto, non genuine, and the description of the 3/8" rod didn't sound like ours but close as I think ours is just round and no flat.
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Old 06-10-2016, 06:02:14 AM
Phil Dowe Phil Dowe is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper

Hello Scott,and thank you for a quick reply!! We have a few pumpers,and really if we can keep them correct,it is the best way!! Now,the fuel tank(you may notice I did not call it a petrol tank) I do have a Buzacott carb.What shape were the original fuel tanks? We have some that are pressed out,and only the top is soldered on,others have both,top,and bottom soldered on!? Another problem we have, is getting the correct clearance,between the detent,to give it hit and miss. I would like to see a pic, from the manual,or the description of how it is done. We are missing something,and I really do not know what? Quite a bit different to F&J or SX. The arm is pivoted on a 3/8" shaft,and there is a right angle bend at the end! Nothing else! What stops it from being too far away from the hit and miss striker? Normally it is 1/32",I think from memory!? I can give you my email address,or phone number,and we can have a chat!? 0418658597. Thanks again to you and to everyone else who has replied,as it is a great site to connect!! Regards Phil.

---------- Post added at 09:02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50:48 PM ----------

Hello again. To everyone who may be reading these conversations,yes that pic of a Buzacott pumper is exactly the same as the one I have in the shed. I have spoken to other authorities,on the subject,and a maker sometimes made a run of engines for other retailers,to sell,and they were badged with the retailers name on them from the factory!! So the exact same engine could have a different name tag on it, I think that, is what I understand!? I still would like more input from anyone who may know historical facts of various engines? Again regards Phil.
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Old 06-10-2016, 06:49:43 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper

" Quite a bit different to F&J or SX "
NO
Scott's engine has the same Carburetor, Head, Rocker and post, fuel tank, engine stand etc as the Southern Cross
Rossberry engine works made engines side by side with Buzacott & Rossberry cast onto the flywheel (early engines) Southern Cross before they made their own farm pumper sold a pumper with 'Challenge' cast on to the flywheel it was made by Rosserrby
There is 'Golds', 'Emu', 'IBC' (Scott has one) these could of been made by Rossberry
There is no record of Southern Cross making pumpers for other people the few engines they did make with a different name were all 'Coopers'
And one more 'Nevertire' ? I think it was called only found in Vic who made it ??
Ian
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2016, 07:13:00 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper

Hello Phil
I know for a fact that engine pictured above was tested on th 11/3/1930 and consigned to Buzacott in Brisbane on the 28/3/1930 so definitely Buzacott.
I have one or two original tanks for patterns and I'm sure they have soldered top and bottoms. But which pumpers they were off is unknown.
I'll have to think about the detent. When I did it up I don't seem to have much trouble but I'll have to go and have a look now. I cannot even remember if I have a book with the EK or not. But I'll look to refresh my failing memory.

I did find this picture from when I was mucking about with it working out how long the push rod should be. You might be able to get something from it.
I'll take some more pictures later of the back of the flywheel
A rough and ready video has a link down the bottom somewhere too. You might get something out of it. It was taken when I first got her going.

I seem to recall the return spring you see about the greaser was kinda important.
Any pictures of what you have Phil?

Cheers Scott



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  #7  
Old 06-11-2016, 02:04:16 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper

I agree that the spring is important and that getting the tension right is equally important. I still love watching and listening to these odd little engines. Our fuel tank is of a 3 piece design, the round body a top and the bottom all soldered together. I also have a brand new one to be assembled one day which is designed the same way.
I have also heard of different tanks but not seen any up close. I would have thought that most of the parts being interchangeable would be the same throughout the range of brands only a few minor differences to avoid copy right infringements.
Re badging was rife back then as it is now so to find out if your engine is a different brand name without any I.D. tag will be very tricky indeed. Only by scrolling through as many old adds as you can find will you truly identify it as something other than a Buzacott / Roseberry.
Engine number and contact Don Reid may help you out.
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2016, 08:51:58 PM
Darryl Darryl is online now
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Default Re: Farm pumper

There's one with a wico on eBay now
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2016, 05:56:59 PM
Phil Dowe Phil Dowe is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Hello again Scotty,and thanks for the pics. I really am not up to a standard to put pics on this site from my phone,but if anyone visits that can help me I will get them to do it!! The spring you speak of, on mine, it holds the detent arm away from the exhaust too much I think? I just thought there should be something to hold the detent back closer to the exhaust striker? Phil
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  #10  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:09:50 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Hello Phil
I've been out to refresh my memory of the old girl and to take some more pictures specific to your needs.
The detent blade is a distance away from the catch block thingo when the engine is not running. When the flywheels is spinning around, the governor seems to keep the blade closer. If anyone cannot confirm or deny that then comments are more then welcomed as I may well be wrong.
If my memory serves me correctly, the 'bent rod' has a flat on it which the grub screw tightens against. Is this correct Phil? If so, then you can't go wrong there.

Anyways, here's some pictures of our poor little pumper. I hope they help
Cheers Scott







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  #11  
Old 06-17-2016, 06:10:10 AM
Combustor Combustor is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

I have a Rosebery Pumper with rotary magneto and its detent mechanism is similar except that there is a short rod about 3/8" dia. threaded into the cast protrusion to the right of the latch as you see it in Phil's first pic in post #6.
When received my detent setup had suffered some inexpert attention, but by sharpening and re-aligning the blade edges and setting the protruding rod to hold the blade just a couple of millimeters out of engagement it functioned very nicely. Just need to find the rest of a pump setup for it now. Regards,
Combustor.
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2016, 06:38:13 AM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combustor View Post
I have a Rosebery Pumper with rotary magneto and its detent mechanism is similar except that there is a short rod about 3/8" dia. threaded into the cast protrusion to the right of the latch as you see it in Phil's first pic in post #6.
Regards,
Combustor.
Hello all
Just to show exactly what Combustor has described. The differences are apparent when comparing these two types of detent setups.
Cheers Scott





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  #13  
Old 06-18-2016, 09:30:20 PM
Phil Dowe Phil Dowe is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Thanks Scotty! That is exactly what I wanted to see. I do not know how many different arrangements there are on different makes of Pumpers,of how that adjustment is made,but there is another one!! Phil
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:24:17 AM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Hello Phil
This may help.
It's a bit hard to get a good picture but if you look in the first picture you may be able to see a J-hook looking thing just below the detent blade. This J-hook screws in and out to adjust the distance the blade sits from the catch block. There are some other differences as well.
The last picture is looking from under the governor setup from the side opposite the magneto.

Cheers Scott









---------- Post added at 04:24:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23:08 PM ----------

I forgot to mention: The above is a Fuller Johnson pumper.
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Old 06-19-2016, 06:42:35 AM
Phil Dowe Phil Dowe is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Thank you Scotty!! You have explained it all to everone!! The F&J,is what I have,and the SX is what I have. Apparantly you can not put a Buzacott detent adjuster on either of those engines, I have mentioned,unless you change the casting,just at this moment I can not remember the casting number,but it is the casting that bolts onto the flywheel side of the crankcase. These three,are the only types of detent adjusters I know,but there may be others!!? Anyway after all of this,I hope everyone has learned something,as I have! How to adjust a Buzacott detent. Regards to all who are interested, Phil

---------- Post added at 09:36:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31:45 PM ----------

Hello again Scotty! You do not seem to have a Dixie mag on that F&J Pumper? Do you have one for it? Phil.

---------- Post added at 09:42:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36:13 PM ----------

Hello again Scotty! You do not seem to have a Dixie mag on that F&J Pumper? Do you have one for it? Phil.
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:10:33 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Dowe View Post
[/COLOR]Hello again Scotty! You do not seem to have a Dixie mag on that F&J Pumper? Do you have one for it? Phil.
Hello Phil.
No, it has not got a Dixie on it. How could you tell from those pictures? There's no magneto shown is there?
It will not get a Dixie as that was the magneto on it when I found it (and I like to keep them as I found them sort of thing which, more then likely, isn't as they came from the factory).
There is also another question of did it ever have a Dixie on it.
When did Fuller and Johnson start putting Dixie's on engines? I ask this for two reasons:
-From the limited research I've done, Dixie did not really happen until 1916 or so. I would love for someone to be able to tell me that's right or wrong.
-I have also found reference that Fuller Johnson did not start to put magneto's on until about 1917 but the old girl in the picture tends to tell a different story.
This old girl is 1914 (Sn 41282). So did she have a Dixie on her or not when she started working?

Cheers Scott

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  #17  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:30:35 PM
JimDoyle JimDoyle is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Scott I dont think it would have come with a Dixie, most likely a Bosch.

Cheers
Jim
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:05:23 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDoyle View Post
Scott I dont think it would have come with a Dixie, most likely a Bosch.

Cheers
Jim
Hello Jim
I'm going to have to agree with you at this stage.
It had been a long time since I took particular notice of the old girl so I went to have a look to remember what I should have remembered.
The magneto is a Bosch ZE1 which is consistent to the era. I cannot make the entire number out but I think it says 1178704 which puts it at about 1911. But I could be wrong with the number. Anyone want to guess the first few numbers?
I also looked under the bugger and it looks as though the ZE1 was meant to be there. No other holes drilled.
Now here is another question. Did the Dixie magneto for single cylinder engines have only two mounting holes or did they come with 4 holes the same as the Bosch? I've only dealt with Dixies with two mounting holes as per Monitor.

Cheers Scott





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Old 06-19-2016, 10:20:07 PM
Phil Dowe Phil Dowe is offline
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Hello again Scotty,just could not see a mag in the picture, or the cover that goes over the gears,so I thought it be missing! I have an unrestored F&J, and it has a Dixie on it. Serial No.100960, I have had it for years,and just have not got around to the restoration. I am pretty sure it is original, and it is the way I bought it a clear sale many years ago. I am not up to speed of how to put pics on this site,and will have to wait till someone younger shows me!! Regards Phil.
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  #20  
Old 06-20-2016, 04:52:20 AM
Darryl Darryl is online now
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Default Re: Farm Pumper

Hi Scott ,I've goy a Dixie with four bolt holes on a 1910 McDonald that is original.

---------- Post added at 06:52:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51:08 PM ----------

Goy ? Make that got
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