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Water Treatment


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  #41  
Old 01-03-2015, 06:07:58 PM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: Water Treatment

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Originally Posted by RedneckAlbertan View Post

The topic of boiler treatment came up; one of the members there who is, I believe, a member here, posted a few links to threads on this site which were a goldmine of information.


Thanks in Advance,
Andrew
That was me, and there is a lot that can be learned over here on boiler water and treatments if folks are willing to take the time and read the information here. I have posted links over on that site to here before but I guess folks are not willing to take the time to read through the FREE information here that would solve many of their questions/problems.

I don't know why I take the time to post there because I usually get told that the live steam hobby is different than the traction engine hobby.............but bad water practices and not drying out boilers properly cause scale, rust, thin spots and bad boilers in any steam hobby.....
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  #42  
Old 01-03-2015, 06:11:18 PM
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Default Re: Water Treatment

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Originally Posted by C130FE View Post
My Dad says - that's scale from previous use. That is normal when using this water treatment, the light gray muck lets you know that the treatment is working as it should. Continue using until you get a light gray color on your boiler metal. It will keep lime and scale off as long as you use it. The Sodium Sulphite is an oxygen scavenger. Disodium Phosphate is a Boiler Metal passivator. Soda Ash is for the Ph of water (acts as a softener). A good water treatment in a boiler will increase the useful life to a boiler.
This is exactly the info that I was looking for. My boiler is light gray now and there is plenty of gray muck when doing a washout. Thank you for your answer.
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  #43  
Old 01-03-2015, 07:13:16 PM
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George White George White is offline
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Default Re: Water Treatment

I use a Hanna Instruments meter. It can give you readings for pH and EC, and also a Total Disolved Solids in PPM, and even a temperature. I cannot remember how much I paid but I think it was less than 100 dollars. It has worked quite well for what I use it for. As far as the EC goes I think that is a measure of electrical conductivity (salts presumably). I think I found it on a Amazon site on the internet and like most was a little skeptical. It has bounced around in the console of hot pickup and cold pickup but now resides at home. Still works great I would recommend this to anyone Can also be used to determine if a water filter/RO system is sill functioning ok.

HI 98129 Made in Mauritius

I also think Jim has said it before, but water is only 1/2 of the equation. Proper boiler cleanliness will give very favorable results as well as having good water. I am reasonably certain we have far better methods of cleaning than they did 100 or even 50 years ago. I personally use a water truck and a minimum of a 1 1/4 inch hose off a two inch pump to flush my boilers after each showing to drastically reduce solids that sit in a boiler. Even after only a 3 day firing. UT tests will not lie about how well you take care. We had one that hadn't hat ut in quite some time and I firmly believe because of our cleaning practices there was very extremely minimal thinning of the boiler plate.

Happy New Year All

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  #44  
Old 01-03-2015, 10:45:37 PM
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Default Re: Water Treatment

Jim,
You would be proud. I'm going to start thinking of feedwater for the J&L 58 locomotive project now instead of waiting until after we start running it. The Youngstown Steel Heritage Museum does not have any running water on site, so I will have to haul water from my house in totes to the museum. I have a well at the house which produces hard water. I do have a consumer grade water softener plumbed in.

As I have been reading through both this thread and another, I can see that perhaps my water softener has not been doing our groundwater any good. Its flush water drains out into the backyard about 150 feet away from where the well is, and has done that for years. So with the minerals that we have in our water, as well as the chlorides that I am sure is present as well, it looks like maybe a reverse osmosis system might be required.

So, starting from scratch, what would you recommend that I do to first, identify the quality of my water and second, filter and/or treat it to a condition for use in a steam boiler?
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Last edited by todengine; 01-04-2015 at 01:06:46 AM.
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  #45  
Old 01-03-2015, 11:07:45 PM
RedneckAlbertan RedneckAlbertan is offline
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Default Re: Water Treatment

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Originally Posted by Jeff Smith View Post
That was me, and there is a lot that can be learned over here on boiler water and treatments if folks are willing to take the time and read the information here.

I don't know why I take the time to post there...
Well, at least one person made the trek over here... Clicking a mouse button is a REALLY hard trek... So don't think its all in vein I've learned a lot from the conversation here, and I may not have found it otherwise.
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  #46  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:19:51 PM
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Default Re: Water Treatment

Thanks for the questions and the great information here on water treatment.
Having talked to Jim in person about this , it can be overwhelming . Having this information here is a great tool and I will be referring back to it in the future.
Thanks
Jon
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  #47  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:35:03 AM
Seafarer12 Seafarer12 is offline
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Default Re: Water Treatment

I will tell you what we do at my plant for water chemistry. It is probably overkill for a boiler that gets run at low pressure, saturation temp, and minimum time.

We use R.O. water that has been polished in an electric demineralizer, Usually about 18 mico mho's.

We treat water with a blended amine, (ammonia) for ph control.

We use to use trisodium phosphate, for PH and to coat the tubes but we are getting away from using that.

We use to use hydrazine as an O2 scavenger but have stopped using O2 scavenger all together. Our deaerator gets most of the O2 out.

We run our PH between 10.0 to 10.4.

We have had some issues with flow accelerated corrosion in the past but that was due to boiler design and old boiler chemistry techniques.

Just to put it in perspective. This is on a 800k lbs/hr 800 to 1600psi three drum heat recovery steam generator.

I am sure they dump some other things in there from time to time but that's most of it.
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  #48  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:08:26 PM
30Advance 30Advance is offline
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Default Re: Water Treatment

Hi Jim,

I have heard different ideas on draining a Traction boiler after a show etc. Some say drain hot, 12 psi or less. gets rid of everything suspended it the water but leaves a fine powdery residue that could trap moisture and corrode the boiler surfaces. The Boiler tends to dry out quicker.

Some say drain cold so you don't get the residue left behind to do as mentioned above.

What is the ideal way to drain a boiler? I'm guilty of both.

Thanks,
Dave
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  #49  
Old 06-15-2017, 09:56:17 AM
GreasyIron GreasyIron is offline
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Default Re: Water Treatment

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Originally Posted by 30Advance View Post
Hi Jim,

I have heard different ideas on draining a Traction boiler after a show etc. Some say drain hot, 12 psi or less. gets rid of everything suspended it the water but leaves a fine powdery residue that could trap moisture and corrode the boiler surfaces. The Boiler tends to dry out quicker.

Some say drain cold so you don't get the residue left behind to do as mentioned above.

What is the ideal way to drain a boiler? I'm guilty of both.

Thanks,
Dave
12psi? Rather specific number; now I'm curious..... what happens at 13psi? I have tried draining hot, but between making certain the fire was gone, and the just the fact that doing so with any pressure on seems an unnessary danger - gage 0.

I cannot claim to know the longterm effects of either, but can toss out some simple logic, and maybe more questions!

If you're getting it ready for winter storage, drain it cold, right before flushing with copious amounts of water. Cold water is going to pull the heat right out of that hot boiler [maybe even faster than really good for it] and make it wet again anyway.

We sometimes have shows that fall two weeks apart. Then I like to stay wet, and just fire up and "test the parade route" couple times between shows. However, schedules don't always cooperate, so we have drained too. The problem is even draining hot leaves some scale in the wet bottoms; I'll assume some hard to see spots would be equally as vulnerable in dry bottoms. So, the flush still makes sense. If flushing the same day though, draining hot does evaporate quicker so an hour later, you can flush without crawling in mud - until your flush water achieves that anyway!

If replacing a tube or something though, and steaming up the same or next day, hot seems obvious to me.

For the conundrum we have between shows, I keep planning to try a nitrogen system, but we haven't got around to it yet.

What says (or "does" ? , could this be a "do as I say not as I do" kind of topic?) everyone else?
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  #50  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:12:27 AM
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Default Re: Water Treatment

Greasy Iron,
I guess we will just let others chime in too. The times I drained hot, I don't do it often, 10psi or so, I make sure there is no fire or hot ashes. Getting the hand hole plates out when they are warm after the water is out is a bit tricky but the boiler dries out nice. Still wonder about the powdery residue trapping moisture that you can't see. Perhaps draining cold is the better option? I usually do the washout the following day anyway so the boiler is cold at that point.
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