Antique Engines and Old Iron

[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® General Discussion > Antique Autos and Trucks
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Autos and Trucks All about finding and fixing old car or truck engines and vintage vehicles.

Antique Autos and Trucks

Seagrave F6 T-Head


this thread has 20 replies and has been viewed 2391 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2016, 11:18:08 PM
Chase392 Chase392 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Posts: 15
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default Seagrave F6 T-Head

Hey guys,

Well after years of searching I finally joined the monster engine club... and brought home a Seagrave Type F6 T-head.

Before I turn a single wrench on this beast... I'd like to try and learn as much as possible about it. I purchased a re-print of the 1926 Seagrave owner's manual and have the "Seagrave Speedster Build" on the H.A.M.B. numerous times but still find information lacking. Any other sources of info?

I know Seagrave made changes to the engine over its production run as I have seen one with a bronze crankcase, and several parts on my engine don't match photos of any other I have seen.

I've also heard that Seagrave can provide information some information if you have the number on the engine data plate... is that true?

My engine looks to be in great shape and is not stuck... but I'll need a magneto and a few small parts. Are there any vendors out there that might have parts?

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chase392 For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-25-2016, 08:35:51 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Did you get a starter and generator with your new found treasure? I have a mid teens Wisconsin 727 CID 4 cylinder "T" head engine out of a Seagrave truck. I am trying to locate a starter and drive for it. I think my engine should have a Westinghouse or Leese Neville unit. Can you post a picture of your engine?
Al
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:43:12 PM
Chase392 Chase392 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Posts: 15
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Alan,

Here is a couple pictures of my starter... I can't see any tags on it but I still need to unload the trailer.

The generator that came with my engine is a 12v Delco-Remy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	002.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	74.6 KB
ID:	266517   Click image for larger version

Name:	003.jpg
Views:	190
Size:	80.0 KB
ID:	266518  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chase392 For This Post:
  #4  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:46:31 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

That gear reduction starter is very similar to what I need with my Wisconsin engine. One d9ifference is my starter should be square and mount flat. Keep you eyes open for me.....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-26-2016, 10:54:09 PM
Chase392 Chase392 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Posts: 15
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan D. View Post
That gear reduction starter is very similar to what I need with my Wisconsin engine. One d9ifference is my starter should be square and mount flat. Keep you eyes open for me.....
Will do, but I'm not sure how much luck I'll have in Texas... I had to drive halfway across the country to find this engine. All the goodies are up North.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chase392 For This Post:
  #6  
Old 10-27-2016, 10:13:20 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

I have heard that a big antique fire truck club/collector group is in the Houston area? Are you familiar with them?
Al
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:26:36 PM
Matt Montague Matt Montague is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Everson, Washington, USA
Posts: 485
Thanks: 1,474
Thanked 793 Times in 215 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Good morning,
I have the same starter & drive on my 23 Seagraves, the Delco number is SM1037. I would highly recommend that you remove the starter and inspect the gears in the reduction box. The box is supposed to have gear oil in it and it seems that after talking with the gentlemen at the LA County Fire Museum that a lot of them seemed to run short on oil and the gears are in bad shape. I found that mine was worn to the point of unusable. I made a new gear and had the starter motor rebuilt.
The folks at LAFM stated they they are also short gears.
I have a picture of the gears.. just can not get the smart phone to let go of it.
I know that my truck has the incorrect carb, I would be interested in seeing what is on your engine Chase.

Matt
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Matt Montague For This Post:
  #8  
Old 10-27-2016, 01:32:49 PM
Matt Montague Matt Montague is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Everson, Washington, USA
Posts: 485
Thanks: 1,474
Thanked 793 Times in 215 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

This is what I had.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	seagrave gear.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	88.0 KB
ID:	266666  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Matt Montague For This Post:
  #9  
Old 10-27-2016, 09:40:37 PM
John Hamilton's Avatar
John Hamilton John Hamilton is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,015
Thanks: 79
Thanked 630 Times in 351 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

The Carburator Shop lists a Stromberg M-5 for all Seagraves from 1919 to 1924. That doesn't mean there aren't variations in linkage, etc. but that is your carb. Do a google search for them.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to John Hamilton For This Post:
  #10  
Old 10-27-2016, 10:26:40 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Matt, Do you know of a spare Delco starter on a shelve somewhere? I could sure use a starter on my Wisconsin! I would even build some kind of adapter if needed to work properly. You gear was in fact worn out and good job with locating or cutting a new gear. How is the rest of the drive for wear? bushings, case, and ect.
Alan
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-27-2016, 11:18:06 PM
Chase392 Chase392 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Posts: 15
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan D. View Post
I have heard that a big antique fire truck club/collector group is in the Houston area? Are you familiar with them?
Al
Alan,

If there is a big antique fire truck club here in Houston, I've never heard of them... but I would sure like to meet them.

Although I fear they would not be overly enthused about my project. My T-head is not going in a fire truck... in fact... this engine has not been in a fire truck since the early 30's....

---------- Post added at 10:18:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08:58 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Montague View Post
Good morning,

I know that my truck has the incorrect carb, I would be interested in seeing what is on your engine Chase.

Matt

Matt,

I got a Schebler Model S, 2 Vert, SX 410 carb with my engine. I have no idea how to decipher what all that means.

No idea if its original or correct, but it does have a 2" bore.

I have two intakes... both are broken. And my exhaust manifold is broken too. I'm not too worried about that though... I was going to make new ones anyway.

Can you tell me what kind of Magneto your engine has? Is it a Splitdorf?

The seller gave me an incomplete Bosch mag with the engine... it says Bosch ZR6 ED-1 T.P16 on the side. It is missing the "cap" and the guts inside the magnet. It is little more than the base and the magnet.

Oddly enough... even though I know it was an option, my engine is the only Seagrave I have ever seen that is not set up for a dual plug mag. It has two plugs in the center of the head and none in the valve caps. I'm really hoping to covert it to 3 plugs.


When I get everything off of the trailer and mocked up again, I will post some pics... I have quite a few other goodies besides the engine for this little project
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chase392 For This Post:
  #12  
Old 10-28-2016, 12:11:14 PM
Matt Montague Matt Montague is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Everson, Washington, USA
Posts: 485
Thanks: 1,474
Thanked 793 Times in 215 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Alan,
I made the blank and sent it to a friend who has a hobb for the tooth cutting, The key way is a 7/32 wide woodruff which is a odd size. My choice was to resize a broach by grinding the sides or to have a friend use his wire EDM to cut it. The EDM was much less money and time. I have made new bushings for the box and the remainder is in good condition.
The folks at LAFM told me that the springs are often broken or bent due to backfires. These seem to be OK.
I am afraid that I currently do not know of any starters, I will however keep a eye open for one.
Chase,
I am not certain when or how the third plug came along. My engine has two.
I am not currently next to the truck but I sure think that it has a ZR-6 on it. I would sure think that you should not have a lot of problem finding a ZR-6 that is complete.
Here is a good bit of info, http://www.oldcroak.com/zr4-zr6-later-edition

Matt

---------- Post added at 11:11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09:07 AM ----------

John,
Thank You, I went to the shelf and found a M-5. Looks like no linkage problems.
How weird is that!
Matt
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Matt Montague For This Post:
  #13  
Old 11-03-2016, 09:38:31 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Any new developments on the Seagrave Speedster project? Do you have any pictures of the engine and your other parts used in your build? What chassis do you plan to use? Do you have a trans-axle? How about steering, shifter, radiator and etc?
Al
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-03-2016, 08:53:55 PM
Chase392 Chase392 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Posts: 15
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan D. View Post
Any new developments on the Seagrave Speedster project? Do you have any pictures of the engine and your other parts used in your build? What chassis do you plan to use? Do you have a trans-axle? How about steering, shifter, radiator and etc?
Al
Alan,

No new pics just yet... I haven't had a chance to unload the trailer... been too busy with work.

I bought an entire package from a Brass Car Collector, he had been gathering parts for a speedster build for 25 years and decided he wouldn't be able to get to it.

I got the Seagrave F6 engine, two White 1.5 ton truck frames, the transaxle, shifter, handbrake, and pedals out of an American LaFrance front drive tractor, a RHD drive steering column out of White, front and rear axles wide enough to allow widening the frame to fit the Seagrave, seats, a copper fuel tank and tons of various other parts to help with the build.

There are still many things to find or fabricate... but I couldn't ask for a better starter "kit".
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chase392 For This Post:
  #15  
Old 11-05-2016, 10:59:06 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Sounds like you are well on your way. Post a few pictures when you can.
Al
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-10-2016, 02:55:38 PM
seagraves26 seagraves26 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

I have a magneto and a generator for the 1925 F head. Both are fully original and will need to be cleaned up or rebuilt. I also have correct intake and an exhaust (2 Pc) manifolds, a Seagrave copper gas tank and a few other asst'd pieces. Jim Dent 859 575.4444
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-21-2016, 09:21:23 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deseret, Utah USA
Posts: 125
Thanks: 45
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Hello Chase392, This is a note to let you know that I have sent along a private email with a couple of questions.
Al
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-23-2019, 06:59:41 PM
Rusted Nuts Rusted Nuts is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Gavilan Hills, California, USA
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

I just bought two early Seagrave fire trucks with the F6 T head engines. One is absolutely complete and is the 24 sparkplug engine. The second is missing the carb and magneto and is the 18 sparkplug engine. Both have starters and transmissions. I have too many projects and need to move these. I will sell all or parts. One has cast spoke wheels and the other has discs. Let me know of your interests.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rusted Nuts For This Post:
  #19  
Old 02-23-2019, 10:11:52 PM
Marc1122 Marc1122 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fillmore, Indiana, USA
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Hello,
I currently have two seagrave t head engines. Am always looking for more.
Would be interested in what you have and your asking price?
Thanks,
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:32:26 PM
MrJim MrJim is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Norco, California, USA
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Seagrave F6 T-Head

Would love to see what you got,I'm in Norco Ca And could come by when it's good for you..
Please call me 760-662-1881 Thanx JIM.

---------- Post added at 01:32:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27:54 PM ----------

My reply was for Rusted Nuts about the Seagrave fire trucks.
Call me 760-662-1881 Thanx JIM
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
V12s: ALF vs. Seagrave Chase392 Antique Autos and Trucks 3 05-31-2016 07:23:53 AM
Continental 6B 6 cylinder flathead, 1926 Seagrave Suburbanite Fire Truck seagraves26 Antique Autos and Trucks 3 01-16-2015 02:25:52 AM
1929 Seagrave Fire Engine Bob Mills Antique Autos and Trucks 20 07-12-2013 01:43:31 PM
Seagrave 1921 Firetruck Day Radebaugh Antique Autos and Trucks 6 03-29-2012 10:01:29 AM
Bear with me here - head size for Onan 305 CCK head bolts? Patrick Onan Generators 14 01-02-2011 04:34:56 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:11:05 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277