Generators and Electric Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E


this thread has 10 replies and has been viewed 5609 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-05-2011, 11:47:17 PM
DCS 2K DCS 2K is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Parkton, Maryland
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

So two days before Hurricane Irene hit Maryland I remembered my Boss had an old generator sitting in the shop. I know it had been there for 12 years collecting dust but I decided to try and get it going. At first my boss thought it was just the engine and I figured I could get that going so I pulled it out to see what would happen. Good old B+S Engine started up on the first pull after choking it, 12 year old gas and all. It was rough but it ran. So I throw it in the truck and head home. Along the way I grabbed a spark plug, fresh gas, sea foam, and a missing bolt for the loose carburetor. Made the changes the fixes the next day and it ran smooth, LOUD but smooth.

So I give my Boss a call to let him know I got it running well and he says it might have been the alternator that didn’t work, not the engine. Sure enough, I try a circular saw and nothing. I put the generator away and knew I’d have to do some research because I have no clue about alternators. I battened down the hatches and hoped the power would stay on. That didn’t help, the power went out at 2am Sunday morning.

Sunday I got up and hit the web and found this great forum. I tried a couple different things including the corded drill winding backwards while plugged in. That didn’t work. I read about flashing next and had concerns about flashing while the alternator was on. I read in another forum somewhere else about disconnecting the set of wires connected to the brush terminals and flashing with the generator off. I used the 12 volt battery out of my ford explorer. No spark when holding the positives and tapping the negatives but sure enough it worked.

127 volts and pretty constant. So I hooked up the frig and went to home depot to get what I needed to feed into my panel. Came back and hooked it into my panel by way of 2 pole 20amp breaker (WITH MAIN OFF) Everything worked great in the house but of course not everything on at the same time(not enough power to do that). Filled it up again before going to bed happy. Woke up at 3am randomly and decided to check on everything. The voltage was good and generator was still running smoothly. At 4am my wife wakes me up saying that the night lights are dimming and flashing. Generator still sounds smooth as I get up to go check what is going on and as I go downstairs the light dims and goes out. I shut the breaker off and go outside. It’s reading only 3.5 volts at the generator. I shut if off and decide to look at it in the morning.

In the morning I pull off the end of the alternator and see that one of the slip rings is all scuffed up. I smoothed it out with a scotch brite pad. Fired it up and still 3.5 volts. Head off to work confused and still without power.

2 days later after getting power back but loosing all the food in the frig I decided to look at the generator again. I found the problem. The one brush was not making good contact with the slip ring. The spring was trying to push it down but the wire coming off the brush(shunt) didn’t have anymore slack. So I switched the wires on the brush terminal to get slack and put everything back together. Fired it up and power is back to 127 volts. So both brushes are on their last leg and I don’t know how much longer it will run for if I need it or someone else needs it. Plus I really want to fix this, I love fixing things that aren't working right.

When it was running before the brush problem, everything in the house ran fine. Refrigerator, well pump, HDTV, cable box, lights, fans, etc.

I did get the Operating Instructions and Parts Manual from Grainger but this generator was made in 1986 and I can’t get the brushes for it anymore from the company who made it. So here are my questions.

Where can I get new brushes and terminals?

1/4” by 1/4" brush (3/4” tall new? now down to 1/2") shunt comes out the side and is 1 ˝” hooked to a 6.3 mm female brass flag terminal.

Is 127 volts too high? Will it damage anything?

When the frig kicks on it drops to 117 volts for a second and then right back to 127.

Is the light bulb test the way to get for finding 60Hz? I don’t quite understand what they are supposed to do when the frequency is right. If everything is working fine in the hose (frig, tv, etc.) and lights aren't flickering does that mean I am close to 60Hz?

Thanks for any help,
Dave
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-06-2011, 12:13:25 AM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,445
Thanks: 490
Thanked 6,911 Times in 3,221 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

Where can I get new brushes and terminals? I can usually get brushes at a shop that services power tools (circular saws, drills, grinders etc.)

Is 127 volts too high? Will it damage anything? No, but that is the upper limit for US utility power.

When the frig kicks on it drops to 117 volts for a second and then right back to 127. OK

Is the light bulb test the way to get for finding 60Hz? Get an old mechanical electric clock, a multmeter that reads Hz or a Kil-A-watt device.

If everything is working fine in the hose (frig, tv, etc.) and lights aren't flickering does that mean I am close to 60Hz? Maybe.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-06-2011, 01:52:38 AM
airbatica airbatica is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Irving, Texas
Posts: 141
Thanks: 20
Thanked 65 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

If you need obsolete brushes, Arrowhead Electric Company is probably the place to look.
www.carbonbrush.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-06-2011, 08:37:11 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Faunsdale, Alabama USA
Posts: 4,436
Thanks: 71
Thanked 1,185 Times in 967 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

I assume you checked with Grainger's about the brushes?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-06-2011, 04:53:13 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oklahoma USA
Posts: 1,165
Thanks: 12
Thanked 288 Times in 262 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rankin View Post
I assume you checked with Grainger's about the brushes?
They (Graingers) now have a very good tech service and you can find their contact info on-line, or call a local Grainger's and they can give you THEIR tech service contact info. Grainger's parts support forwards customers to their tech specialists when they cannot readily find a part number for obselete eq.
Bet you can find parts through Graingers since you have the Graingers Model number!

Also most good Electric motor re-build, re-wind shops can provide brushs!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-10-2011, 11:44:39 PM
DCS 2K DCS 2K is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Parkton, Maryland
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

Thanks for the replies.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Brushes.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	37.0 KB
ID:	115577

Even though I have the manual, Grainger no longer has the parts for this model. The company they sold the extra old parts to no longer has them either.

If anyone needs the manual for Dayton Models 3W177D, 3W178E, 3W179C, 3W180C or 3W232D, this manual covers them all. I would gladly share it.

I've had some luck just googling "motor brushes" in finding some websites and info. From what I have learned most portable generator's alternators use brushes made out of METAL GRAPHITE. Correct me if I am wrong.

From REPCO Replacement Electrical Parts Co. http://www.repcoinc.com/brushes/reference.asp

METAL GRAPHITE BRUSHES are generally made from natural graphite and finely divided metal powders. Copper is the most common metallic constituent, but tin, silver and lead are also used. This material is ideal for a variety of applications because of its low resistivity. Metal graphites are used on commutators of plating generators and wound rotor induction motors where low voltage and high brush current densities are encountered. They are also used for grounding brushes because of their low contact drop. These brushes exhibit a definite polishing action.


METAL GRAPHITE
Good for current densities
Low contact drop
Polishing action
Metal content application
50% - material handling, battery charging & welding generators
60% - plating generators & rings
75% & up - rings & grounding brushes


Trying to find the right size now.

I will try that www.carbonbrush.com site also.

I can't seem to find it with the brass 6.3mm female flag connector. And I can't find a place that sells these flag connectors in the US. I know someone has to carry them. Help?

Also is there anyway to reduce the output voltage to 120V?

What is the maximum voltage that things will run on and not be damaged? 130V?

I believe there is no voltage regulation on this unit and it is all determined by the engine speed.

Thanks again for the help,
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-11-2011, 04:13:17 AM
Power Power is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,451
Thanks: 1,259
Thanked 3,322 Times in 1,944 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

High voltage - first thing I Check is frequency - engine may be running fast. If you do not have a meter - do it the way I do - electric clock with second hand - plug it in - time with a stopwatch. If clock says 1 minute before stopwatch does, gen running too fast - adjust governor.

Over 120V drastically shortens life of incandescent bulbs.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-11-2011, 10:46:25 AM
Arkie Arkie is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oklahoma USA
Posts: 1,165
Thanks: 12
Thanked 288 Times in 262 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

I've took brushs that are a size larger, thicker, etc, and a stationery belt sander and make the correct size. (wear a dust mask or respirator)
A good electric motor rewind shop can do the same or can find some brushes that can be ground to fit!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-11-2011, 03:28:07 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,196 Times in 1,057 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

MCM Electronics has flag connectors. I have bought the insulated type there. I do not know if they have the uninsulated type but would almost bet they do.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-14-2011, 09:07:43 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,196 Times in 1,057 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

A point about Dayton generator that I found while looking for info on a Winco PTO generator. I found some downloads for Dayton generators at: www.wincogen.com

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-14-2011, 09:48:06 PM
David K David K is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 271
Thanks: 2
Thanked 50 Times in 44 Posts
Default Re: Problems with Dayton 3300 Watt Generator Model 3W178E

Who actually made the generator for Dayton/Grainger? Post a picture of the generator....guarentee somebody on SmokStak can identify the maker.

It could of been made by Generac. If so, call Generac and see if brushes are available.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Sears companion 5000 watt generator needs generator unit daytonakid Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 1 05-17-2010 04:21:46 PM
Dayton Model 3W093 Generator no output Mike Ares Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 4 10-27-2009 07:54:24 PM
Dayton Generator Help The one banger boy Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 2 08-12-2009 09:27:39 PM
Dayton Powerplant M#3W178e jn6570 Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 6 12-11-2004 12:06:54 PM
dayton generator j frazier Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 1 10-23-2004 08:03:39 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50:50 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277