Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Shop Equipment Tools and Techniques > Machine Shop and Tool Talk
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Machine Shop and Tool Talk Shop Equipment, fabrication, repairs, how to fix it, which tool to use for the job. Machinist shop talk, straight to the point.

Machine Shop and Tool Talk

Polisher Restoration


this thread has 61 replies and has been viewed 3595 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:32:07 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Marcos, Texas / McGill, Nevada
Posts: 4,360
Thanks: 5,181
Thanked 3,584 Times in 1,777 Posts
Default Polisher Restoration

Drug this old polisher out of my to-do pile yesterday. Stripped the base/pedestal last night, and the motor today, with the exception of the data tag.

Any suggestions on cleaning up the data tag? Pretty sure its an aluminum tag and wire wheel would just obliterate it. Would be nice to know mfr and voltage. The bottom tag is a brass inventory control type tag with numbers stamped in it, I will just polish it for some bling.

Peeked under the base yesterday, no capacitors under there. From the plug there are 3 wires, 1 goes directly to the motor, other 2 go to the switch. The plug that is on it looks like a 220v dryer/stove type plug, did they make these to run on 220v? Would the lack of capacitors be a clue that its 220v? How would I go about positively identifying what voltage this thing runs on?

I do not think its a 3 phase motor, but could be wrong.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	polisher 1.jpg
Views:	368
Size:	133.2 KB
ID:	280192   Click image for larger version

Name:	polisher 2.jpg
Views:	314
Size:	95.1 KB
ID:	280193  
__________________
Those who can see the invisible, can do the impossible
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dalmatiangirl61 For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:00:08 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 4,833
Thanks: 6,465
Thanked 2,082 Times in 1,421 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

It could be split phase or repulsion start. Agreed that that looks like a 240 volt, 30 amp, single phase plug.

For nameplates I like to use an oil soaked rag. No abrasives! Only makes 'em worse.

Keith
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vanman For This Post:
  #3  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:30:00 AM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Marcos, Texas / McGill, Nevada
Posts: 4,360
Thanks: 5,181
Thanked 3,584 Times in 1,777 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

Split phase = 220v single phase? If repulsion start I sure hope all those parts work so I don't have to crack motor open........ Those little things on the top of motor are little tiny grease cups, anyone want to take a guess on mfr and age? My plan is to set this one up with muslin wheels for polishing.
__________________
Those who can see the invisible, can do the impossible
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:52:50 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 4,833
Thanks: 6,465
Thanked 2,082 Times in 1,421 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

Yes, split phase motors are single phase. I have also seen old capacitor start motors that have flat capacitors, that look like sardine cans, mounted in the base.

Repulsion start motors do benefit from an occasional cleaning / service. If that's what it is, there would most likely be some removable covers for access / inspection. They are my favorite type of single phase motor though.

As a completely wild guess, I'm going to say 1940's or perhaps '50's. Looks old enough to be good.

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-17-2017, 02:31:54 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Marcos, Texas / McGill, Nevada
Posts: 4,360
Thanks: 5,181
Thanked 3,584 Times in 1,777 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
You come up with the best junk.

Ever get the backhoe working in Texas? Or you a permanent Nevada resident now?
I'm back in Texas at the moment, the big push on finishing up projects is because I'm hauling a bunch of tools back to Nevada soon, I'm getting tired of the drive.

The tractor is a bit of a sore subject right now, friend did nothing to finish it up and pushed it into the weeds. She is the one doing all the dirt work these days, so I just don't get why she did not finish it. I need to drag it back up on the pad and try to finish it up.
__________________
Those who can see the invisible, can do the impossible
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:44:24 PM
s100 s100 is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Posts: 825
Thanks: 204
Thanked 486 Times in 334 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

It's my guess that your machine is a Cincinnati. It's had to tell without any reference but I would guess it to be 1HP. Cincinnatis are very good machines and well worth the effort to get going again. That said there's a lot of similarity between brands so no telling what your tag might reveal. But Cincinnati was a manufacturer so if your tag says otherwise it might merely be rebadged. As to age, who knows? Could be pretty much anything from the 40's on. The aluminum tag implies a later machine, maybe late 50's or newer.

It's even harder to guess what (or IF) some long ago screwball was thinking when he/she connected the machine to a line. It was me, I'd pull the end bells off the motor and that will tell the story as to whether single or three phase. Still some doubt about voltage, though, although that's easier resolved. And while you're in there, you can clean out ages of dust and crud, and repack or replace the bearings, and, if warranted, replace the leads to the motor or cover them with some shrink tubing. I've seen your other projects posted here and you aren't one to back off from doing things right. Don't crap out on us now!

If I was forced to make a guess at this distance I'd say it's three phase, and, being small, more likely 240 than 480V. But that guess is worth exactly what you paid for it. One thing you can do is to measure resistance between the three wires and to ground. If the thing is single phase and even remotely properly wired, the two wires to the switch should be the two lines and the third, direct wire should go to ground and should be electrically isolated from the other two. If none of the leads have resistance to ground and the same resistance between any two leads, it's three phase and very improperly wired. A hot lead should NEVER be directly connected to a load, all three MUST be switched.

Whatever you find, be it single or three phase, try running the motor on the lower voltage and if it starts and runs properly and makes good power then you're golden. If it's wimpy the odds are it's wired for high voltage.

If it is three phase and it is 480V, you have three options. One, run it like it is and be happy. Two, connect the motor to the line through a small step up transformer. Three, dig into the motor to find the winding connections and reconnect them for lower voltage. If you don't know how to do this it's best done by a motor shop, and shouldn't be too expensive.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to s100 For This Post:
  #7  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:38:08 AM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Marcos, Texas / McGill, Nevada
Posts: 4,360
Thanks: 5,181
Thanked 3,584 Times in 1,777 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

Did a little cleaning on the data tag this evening, mfr is a mystery still, think I can see a C, but its really hard to tell. Did figure out the most important things, rpm is 3450, and bottom line of tag I can make out 220 60 3, so its a 3 phaser. I guess its not the end of the world, this would probably be an ideal place to use one of those add-a-phase things, anyone remember the real brand name of those?

S100
I really was hoping to avoid pulling the end bells, bearings spin nice and free by hand, if it sounds bad running I guess I'll have to go back in. With a sealed housing like that how much junk gets in? There are some letters in the pedestal casting CET.Co iirc, I'll get a pic.

Edit: Seems add-a-phase is Ronk, I seem to remember someone posting a link to just a little capacitor contraption in another thread, anyone remember that item? IIRC it was probably small enough I could stuff it into the base of this thing.

---------- Post added at 09:38:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12:22 PM ----------

Ok, I found the link I was thinking about, not sure if its still a good link though www.phazpak.com

Of course that got me thinking, my rotary phase converter, iirc, is just a 3 phase motor with a bank of capacitors. Well I've got capacitors, oodles of them, so maybe if I just used the right number of them I could run this thing on 220v 1ph?

Essentially turn the buffer into a rotary phase converter, only not running power further down the line? Will that work?
__________________
Those who can see the invisible, can do the impossible
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-19-2017, 02:09:25 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 4,833
Thanks: 6,465
Thanked 2,082 Times in 1,421 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
Of course that got me thinking, my rotary phase converter, iirc, is just a 3 phase motor with a bank of capacitors. Well I've got capacitors, oodles of them, so maybe if I just used the right number of them I could run this thing on 220v 1ph?

Essentially turn the buffer into a rotary phase converter, only not running power further down the line? Will that work?
Yes, exactly that. As long as you are using run caps, not start caps.

If you can find the full load current, or at least the hp, we should be able to get a pretty good idea of how many ufs to use.

Keith

---------- Post added at 11:09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05:21 PM ----------

Oh, I think that those things were called Phase - O - Matic phase converters. But converter was a misnomer. They start a three phase motor with a cap, but then the motor just runs on single phase. With only 2/3 capacity.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vanman For This Post:
  #9  
Old 04-19-2017, 09:17:52 AM
beezerbill beezerbill is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 1,156
Thanks: 179
Thanked 619 Times in 415 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

I have a little Phase-A-Matic on a Do-All bandsaw. Works great! Forget it's even there.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beezerbill For This Post:
  #10  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:56:19 PM
pauljac pauljac is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: East Aurora, New York
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Polisher Restoration

I have a Cincinnati bench grinder and the brass ID tag measures 3.25" X 1.625" with the mounting holes on 3.125" centers.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1773.JPG
Views:	48
Size:	131.5 KB
ID:	280445
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pauljac For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Restoration Tip Gene Fisher Antique Gas Engine Discussion 3 06-12-2016 10:08:18 AM
Inexpensive Crankshaft Polisher Jim Parrott Machine Shop and Tool Talk 0 01-07-2016 11:57:13 AM
Oddball Piece Restoration Nearly Complete, Serial Tag Restoration Question bryani289swmi Small Air Cooled Gasoline Engines 2 04-15-2008 12:10:29 PM
Restoration Ed Welsh Antique Engine Archives 0 02-26-2003 03:59:02 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:45:08 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277