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possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?


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  #1  
Old 10-15-2013, 05:28:08 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

I have this older water pump bearing and would like to drill a hole to pump grease into it.
Also was thinking if I had a hole I could put compressed air on this and pop off the outer seals.

Water pump bearing are long and the shaft is part of the bearing.
They have thin rubber seals on each end and are sealed for life. This one goes on an MCCK raw water pump onan gen and is no longer made. I have seen people listing them for over $500.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:54:53 PM
TekNik TekNik is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

I have limited metalwork experience and some training on bearings.
But I know that bearing race steel is VERY HARD. I wouldn't try to drill it........ but I don't know if it is impossible .
If you do try, you will need a strong fixture, a strong, hard drill bit, a powerful drill press or mill, and plenty of coolant.

Even so, you might still damage the balls, and the burrs on the inside of the outer race from the drilling of the hole will possibly reduce the life of the bearing.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:29:48 PM
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

I have to agree. I think that's a bad idea. I understand the thought , but think it would do more damage than good. just use some really good high temp grease when you put it together! don't buy the cheap stuff, when working on automotive you get what you pay for. mobil makes some great grease! plus your seals will go out again before you bearing will. and then you should repack the bearings. just my thoughts
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:31:55 PM
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Can you post pictures of the pump and bearing? If they are what I think they might be, there may be a way to get a new bearing.
PT
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:04:09 PM
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Ball and needle/roller bearings are made of an alloy called 52100 spherodized. Then they're hardened to rockwell c 60-62.

The only way to drill into that uber hardness is with a carbide drill. Besides, whacha gonna do when the drilled hole puts a few little chips into the bearings. Naah, don't do it.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:35:15 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Ok, I decided to heck with it, I will just open it up and see what is inside.

The one side the balls have worn so I will get 12 new 1/4 inch balls from the hardware store and replace them all.

The end cap seals, I drilled a hole and pried out on one side, other side I used a heavy duty pin and punched thru the metal and pried out.

The nylon retainers simply lift out from the outer edge.

Bearing had a very slight side play maybe .003

---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

Picture of bearing taken apart.


---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

There was a green colored grease in there.
The side facing the impeller had gotten silght rust damage mostly on the balls, they are no longer like mirrors.

shiny balls measure 0.248,
rusty balls measure 0.246

what does a new ball measure? will it be 0.250?

I wonder about the side seals, any ideas?
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:20:54 PM
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

You might try posting your question over in the Onan generator forum.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:22:34 PM
Richard W. Richard W. is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I like oldstuff View Post
Ball and needle/roller bearings are made of an alloy called 52100 spherodized. Then they're hardened to rockwell c 60-62.

The only way to drill into that uber hardness is with a carbide drill. Besides, whacha gonna do when the drilled hole puts a few little chips into the bearings. Naah, don't do it.
My thoughts exactly.

I have used carbide drills to drill holes in HSS lathe bits. I used carbide die drills. Also work well to drill out HSS taps. You have to have a rgid machine to do it though. A hand drill isn't going to cut it.

Richard W.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:47:19 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

No one will be able to help so you help yourself maybe.
These AC seals will work I think. They are steel and have a tapering rubber edge.

I have to grind down the outer edge to fit inside the bearing shell
And I will smooth out the pitted shaft. Then glue them in with some gasket sealer.
Pulley side will ride tight, do you think it will wear down the rubber or the metal?
Impeller side will be a better fit.

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Old 10-16-2013, 07:46:25 AM
edward moller edward moller is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

i have purchased new waterpump bearings from a rebuilder, give them the dimensions, they have hundreds of different sizes.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:50:47 AM
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Why don't you just buy a new pump bearing and machine your end dimensions to suit. You know that tinkering with what you have is going to fail shortly. Most bearing shafts are locally induction hardened in the areas where the balls contact and the rest of the shaft is soft.

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/n...33-437101.html

http://www.wd-bearing.com/en/water-p...m#.Ul6KHVOmW3I

http://ebay.com/bhp/water-pump-bearing

http://www.hilightusa.com/waterpump.html

http://www.peakbearings.com/catalog/...mpBearings.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-17104.../dp/B003AOQ7OQ
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:57:32 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I like oldstuff View Post
Why don't you just buy a new pump bearing and machine your end dimensions to suit. You know that tinkering with what you have is going to fail shortly. Most bearing shafts are locally induction hardened in the areas where the balls contact and the rest of the shaft is soft.
What happens when raw ocean water sits on the exposed shaft where it would fit to the rubber impeller. It is bathed in salt water 24 hours a day.
The onan raw water pump shaft has a stainless end piece that looks to be pressed into the shaft. Maybe if I had all the proper machine tools it could be made again.

the outer bearing shell measures 1.18

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

I found out a inch internal clip ring can be put in the pulley side of the pump bearing shell instead of that seal, and there is enough room to place a standard seal into the bronze pump housing. That leaves a .05 gap difference between the seal and the housing so maybe a shim.

The other side I ground down the metal edge of the AC seal and it will press fit into the pump bearing shell. I also ground smoother the rusty pump shaft and then filled with some metal filler so it is smooth surface for the seal.

So then plan to pack it with grease and put some sealer on the AC metal seal edge where it meets the pump bearing shell.

ACE had the balls and they measure 0.248 same as the original so only replacing the 6 rusty ones.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:07:01 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Thanks for those links.
This w bearing from Peak seems to have a drilled hole in the end.
I would have to destroy my existing shaft to see how they made the SS end piece fit into the pump shaft but it does look interesting.
Is that hole threaded or smooth?
Do you think this Onan pump shaft has that SS part pressed in or screwed in?
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:09:10 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

I also noticed that the bearing shellthey list is the same 1.18 width of the Onan part.

The Onan forum wont be any help with making a new pump shaft, that is more a job for a machine shop.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:57:41 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

reassembled using lithium moly grease

seal snapped in


seal sealed on edge with silicon gasket maker


bearing feels good we wil see how it holds up
The nylon ball cage snaps in easy, so dont really need an internal c clip on the other end, but put one anyway.

Going to store to buy an oil seal 1.125 by 5/8 which will need shimming. I have a piece of 1 inch heat shrink tubing going to fit and see if it can hold.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:59:56 PM
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Have you tried to get a Speed-i-sleeve for the eroded area ? I think that a Speed-i-sleeve would last longer than heat shrink tubing. Speed-i-sleeves are made of seamless, very thin stainless steel.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:15:54 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

It's together and looks like it will work.
The shim I needed was on the pulley side to aid in fitting the end seal. The housing bore measures 1.18 and and the rubber coated seal 1.125. The rubber heat shrink was too thin so I used some oil soaked cardboard to hold the seal. It wont get too much twisting force on it. I think it is tight enough to work. It is easy to see. Even if the seal worked forward, it is wide enough it would hit the mount bracket and cant go any further, so it would still seal in the grease. The advantage of using this other seal is it does increase the grease reserve capacity, and I can take it apart and repack the bearing without having to take the shaft out of the shell again.

Onan left a large area in front of the bearing shell and this seal fits with a shim ok. I did not want to spend money on a sleeve.



The other side is where the weep slot allows salt water to drain if the impeller seal fails. That could have used a speed sleeve if that shaft could have been turned down by me.

I did use the drill to spin the shaft and a file and sandpaper to smooth the shaft where that AC seal lip rests. And it did improve the surface.

I think it will hold the grease in ok. That AC seal fits the slightly eroded area well enough and i did coat the shaft end with the goo. If it cuts into the goo it will form a shoulder and lip seal combo. I took the shaft and spun it in the drill and held the AC seal on the shaft ( using some grease) with pliers and it held up. It was too tight on the non eroded pulley side and after fit well on the eroded side. I did that deliberately to see how it would hold up and to see if I could wear it down to fit a little looser. It was tight enough on the non eroded pulley side to heat up the shaft with friction.

Anyway it is easy to watch and see if the grease leaks out or not as this pump is high up on the generator.

---------- Post added at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ----------

If anyone ever repairs a water pump bearing like this, I say just carefully destroy the existing seals as you do not want to damage the plastic inner ball bearing cage. I would not recommend drilling because you can go to far in and hurt the plastic ball cage.
My idea was to drill a hole with a dremel and then pop them out but that is too risky. For the other side I used a very heavy duty sewing needle and tapped it into the seal through its thin metal backing plate and popped it loose.

These seals are similar to the sealed rubber bearing end seals found on ball bearings. They do not make a sealed ball bearing in the right size to harvest the seals for reuse in this water pump bearing, so you have to come up with your own idea. Another idea I had was to use a rubber grommet sliced in half, or a rubber hose washer but the AC seal really was perfect. I ground the outer edge to ever so slightly larger than where it would fit and the pliers snapped it home. I had two sizes of AC seals and they had come in a large pack of AC seals from Autozone. Those seals are used to seal the compressor to the refrigerant line.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:37:38 PM
Dustin D Ehli Dustin D Ehli is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

will be interesting too see how long it lasts.
Keep in mind that the AC seals were designed for a static application, you are using them in a dynamic against the spinning shaft?
Very creative, hope it works out for you.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:16:04 PM
Bob Phillips Bob Phillips is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

I've used a "Plasma Cutter" to pierce bearing races and other types of material... Also, have chromed worn bearing surfaces such as you have and reground if needed... Sometimes a "exact" chroming will surfice.... Bob Phillips
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:13:47 PM
chrsbrbnk chrsbrbnk is offline
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Default Re: possible to drill hole through a roller bearing race?

Alot of machine shops now days have an edm machine style known as a "hole popper" their whole purpose is pop a hole in anything thats a pain to drill. a typical one would poke a 1/8 dia hole through a bearing race in about 60 secs. , not counting the set up time of clamping it down. a convention edm can do the same but a bit slower
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