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Another Austral Joins the Collection.


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  #31  
Old 01-27-2015, 05:19:11 AM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

That person is very skilled at it, i myself have only done it once.
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2015, 09:35:07 AM
freshieslures freshieslures is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

That's a great repair, looks like it may have cost a few dollars!
Justin
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  #33  
Old 01-29-2015, 06:37:42 PM
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Patrick M Livingstone Patrick M Livingstone is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

I have not had much time to pay much attention to the new toy but I have pulled the piston out to check the numbers. Ronaldson-Tippett renumbered their engines when refurbished at the factory but (usually) left the original number on the big end bearing. So far all the numbers on No.824 match:
the big end



compression plate:

little end:



This makes the engine a little more puzzling and interesting. It is either a rebuilt earlier engine where even the piston, rod and bearing have been replaced or it is a newer engine built using older castings. I have measured the crankcase and all the dimensions are identical to the late style pushrod engines. The sub-base is identical to those used on the later pushrod stationaries and the early sideshaft engines. Patrick
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  #34  
Old 02-08-2015, 01:32:00 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

There is still another thing to consider and it has been mentioned earlier by Alastair Geddes and that is the safety point.
The engine once finished has to be safe to operate and safe enough that you will stand or your family will stand in front of the flywheel so you have to guarantee your work even if you sell the engine, your still responsible as you did the repair so you have to think of this when doing work.
I do some of the Scrutineering at our Rally and as I am not an Engineer but have a fair understating and knowledge on what to look for on a safety point I report any possible issues to our Clubs Safety Officer. I would have thought that a repaired flywheel would be an issue that I would report so that I know that I have done my part correctly. So I can't say if it would pass or not as it would be in the hands of the Safety Officer. Are there any Safety Officers out there reading this thread as I would like to hear their views on the topic.
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  #35  
Old 02-09-2015, 06:27:00 AM
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Patrick M Livingstone Patrick M Livingstone is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobbadog View Post
There is still another thing to consider and it has been mentioned earlier by Alastair Geddes and that is the safety point. The engine once finished has to be safe to operate and safe enough that you will stand or your family will stand in front of the flywheel so you have to guarantee your work even if you sell the engine, your still responsible as you did the repair so you have to think of this when doing work. I do some of the Scrutineering at our Rally and as I am not an Engineer but have a fair understating and knowledge on what to look for on a safety point I report any possible issues to our Clubs Safety Officer. I would have thought that a repaired flywheel would be an issue that I would report so that I know that I have done my part correctly. So I can't say if it would pass or not as it would be in the hands of the Safety Officer. Are there any Safety Officers out there reading this thread as I would like to hear their views on the topic.
IF this engine ever appears at a rally the flywheels will have been repaired or replaced to meet or exceed any required standard. I try to never have my family or myself stand in front of a rotating flywheel as who knows what can happen with something that is often over 100 years old.
Safety officers can be of great help to a rally and also do great harm. Thankfully in 30 odd years of rallying the vast majority have been the good ones. Patrick
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:31:15 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

I never doubted that at all Patrick but asked the question in general as to what is acceptable and what wouldn't be.
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  #37  
Old 02-13-2015, 11:01:03 PM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

Well i will try to answer without offending anyone, it is best answered by a Mechanical engineer as they have last say and insured for same.
Although machinists and operators could have insurance as well.

I am a civil engineer and a fitter and turner although have done some mechanical subjects as electives.
You have several views the operators, from past incidents / close calls / repairs.
The Machinists or repair people , from past incidents / close calls / returns for rework or replacement/ trade experience.
Engineers from past formulas based on practical observations and past history / returns/ close calls/ theoretical knowledge based on the preceding items, Actual destruction testing, theoretical knowledge extrapolated from testing.
As most items like the one you show are pre Australian standards you can look to the early American standards as they predate the australian ones on mechanical items by many years.

A engineer they would i think try to reverse engineer the flywheel or do a design outright for comparison he has at his disposal advanced mathematical finite element modelling with the advent of computers. Such as Ansys FEA package, abacus or like.
Even though its old people will apply the new to the old to see how it performs. He may just do hand calculations first and finite later. Finite is a mathematical based computer package.
His theoretical answer has some practical errors it may be over or under compensated, a safety factor is applied to allow for this.
True destruction testing confirms or disputes theoretical answers. Theoretical answers are used because destruction testing is expensive and from past experience not always needed. Incidents and no of of past history past comparisons of results etc.
That is where statistics come in.

As to dare i say it if something happened people would look to all involved from the person giving advice , casting company, machine company, operator and see what influence they had on the outcome it is now getting into legal territory which i have only limited knowledge on ( 1 subject at uni ) as is best answered by a legal person.
Whos idea , who instructed who to do it that way,etc who did maintenance did any crack testing take place on known problem areas at regular intervals, was the metal the correct grade tested by taking a sample?, was the casting cooled too quickly?, was it machined correctly? did it fatigue? etc etc on it goes all the accumulated knowledge since day dot would be applied.

It could get very expensive if you reach this point so i feel it is better to learn from other peoples mistakes/ history lessons rather than make new ones of your own by ignoring same. If your into pushing the boundries you remove the safety factors and will have more of a chance of having incidents. ( engineering and statistics again)

Insurance can cover cost but does not replace people!!!!! so i like to er on the safer side of things, go a grade up, make a bigger shaft , make new if in doubt , etc use modern available knowledge.

Still it does not answer your question is it safe? i left it open for all the previous comments, but leave you with this comment to think about.
There is no capture of broken flywheels on a exposed crankcase engine and path / paths will be quite a distance.
You donít want to be hit with a lump of flywheel it will hurt.
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  #38  
Old 02-14-2015, 03:49:35 AM
LizRon LizRon is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

Hi Alistair
Your safety concerns are are noted .If Patrick goes goes down the path of the type of metal lock repair we have used it is used in more extreme situations than a low speed flywheel and does come with certification . If you had the outer rim or broken spokes repaired it may be an issue but if you the mathematics the hub has nowhere near the load the outer rim has on it it has to let go before the rest .
If it is repaired ?its not cheap you are paying for safety
And hopefully may find some Flywheels
On the Rally field have seen a few flywheels been repaired and run.with shrink rings etc. lots of flywheels out there have fine cracks and the owners a not aware of it. mainly the clamp type hub where flywheels fitted incorrectly
Ron
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  #39  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:57:06 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick M Livingstone View Post
The crankshaft itself is about 2ļ out of alignment which is not unusual in an Austral.

Hi Patrick,

I hear around the traps you are selling this Austral, is it due to the twist in the crankshaft?

Considering the twist is in such a short length of the shaft do you think it compromises the integrity of the crankshaft?

I always thought this was a good engine, but the twist in the crankshaft concerned me.

Regards,
Wayne
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  #40  
Old 10-10-2018, 06:19:20 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Another Austral joins the collection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick M Livingstone View Post
I am told that my new engine is one that may have been recovered by your father many years ago. Do you have any recollection of its history prior to preservation? Apart from the flywheels (which would have been damaged in service) the engine appears to have been well looked after. Patrick

Hi Patrick,

If this is indeed the engine, might I suggest, that you just preserve the engine for what it is. The engine my father recovered was mechanically poor but an excellent example of original paintwork.

Any mechanical restoration work will probably detract from what the engine is. There are countless running Austral oil engines on show, there are not countless examples with paintwork like this one. Museums are full of engines that can run but will never run again, why not preserve this engine as it is.

But its your engine...up to you or the new owner.

Regards,
Wayne
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