Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® General Discussion > Smokstak Down Under
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Smokstak Down Under For Australia and New Zealand Smokstakers to meet, greet, yabber and yack.

Smokstak Down Under

Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme


this thread has 83 replies and has been viewed 5989 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-17-2017, 08:51:56 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,839
Thanks: 1,805
Thanked 1,710 Times in 824 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd colour scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merv C View Post
G'day Paul,

I am not in a position to enter into a debate on Acroyd Hornsby's colours.

Merv
g'day Merv,..the reality is neither am I? If we stick strictly though to our thread starters question I might be brave enough to hold my hand up and claim to have a pretty solid answer?
Market penetration here in Oz was pretty good for these engines.Bear in mind I am talking ONLY about H.A. portables,so I am purposefully excluding stationary units and the majority of ALL engines shipped after say 1906.
That narrows the hunt for clues considerably.
When you take a look at the big picture for these units it is almost as if the rest of the world got none,and the whole lot made their way here.I remember asking the chap who cares for the original sales records a good while back about other markets.It seems that none of the 'heavy' or early style portables made their way to South Africa?I am not sure about 'improved' portables.It seems New Zealand might have a similar story,although I do know of an early style portable wreck that was found there.Not much of it was left.The preheat blower made it's way to Australia,and as I was involved in brokering a trade with it at the time I noticed the engine number stamped on it was 4 digits in the #3000 somewhere.Whatever original colour that machine was it would be best to ignore it as well as it is early enough to confuse the picture with the post 1900 portables,which is the place in history where our thread starters engine is situated.Perhaps you have forgotten that you yourself mailed me information to clear up a question for me about why there was such a large gap in the recorded engine numbers to be sent this way somewhere prior to the #5000s?For all of the surviving portables I have looked at there are not many in existence here with numbers earlier than that?I have looked at two or three,and helped with a lot of parts for one of those.
The Australian sales records show a lot of information that seems to clear up a few common misconceptions about the engines that arrived here.I have found that my own vigorous searching for clues about the make up of my own engine has cleared up a few of those for myself personally as well,although you might be surprised how many people are more than ready to argue about things that are repatedly written in the sales register or repeatedly demonstrated in the surviving machinery/wrecks etc;those same things that the other person has not seen one iota of for themselves.
I'm afraid I have also been guilty of the same fault,because a few surprises, just amongst these portable Akroyds alone, have had their turn at deflating the little bit of self proclaimed expertise I had built up.
Factory provided surprises aside,it is not too difficult to map many of the changes in fittings applied to Akroyd portables if you have looked at enough of them closely in respect to their individual shipping dates.
Parts common to both styles such as govenors,small brassware,riveting etc tell a story across the production dates.A good example might be the snap head rivets in the galvanized fuel tanks.'Very' early tanks were rectangular and I have only seen say 2 of these?The cylindrical tanks on the 6.5hp portables I have possibly owned 4 of those myself?Somewhere in the mid- #6000s it appears that the company liked better the look of the head of the snap heads to be visible on the outside.I cant make out Mike's unit clearly but I am willing to bet his is built that way?I think I can make out the riveting at the top of the fuel tank here in the thread on #9663 and it appears true to form?
The question of paint most likely used originally on the above mentioned portable,for myself at least,does not present me with a lot of cause for doubt,given the direction the manufacturer appeared to be taking re colour scheme at the time.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Paul Richardson For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #12  
Old 10-18-2017, 12:57:28 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 896
Thanks: 157
Thanked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd colour scheme

I'm sure you are correct Merv.........there are a couple here in WA the particular one that i am thinking of is green and if Lincoln Green is a light green then it is correct.I'm sure the late Bert Tyler did some research on the choice of colour.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-18-2017, 07:18:44 AM
typak typak is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,551
Thanks: 1,891
Thanked 3,195 Times in 790 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd colour scheme

Hello Paul, to my understanding the portable oil engines in general became very popular in Australia very quickly as against the portable steam engine no wood or water and skilled attendant being required, things that were a headache in many parts of the colony during the Akroyd era, and even nowadays? also the safety oil engine presented a great improvement to the risk of fire being applicable to Australia? also it could be said the Akroyd was made in other countries, the US, France and Russia so many parts of the world did not necessarily receive the Hornsby as we know it?....... I had this pleasantly unpainted 05 style at a show on the weekend, now why spoil a good engine by painting it?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	246.8 KB
ID:	293909  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to typak For This Post:
  #14  
Old 10-18-2017, 07:46:41 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,839
Thanks: 1,805
Thanked 1,710 Times in 824 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd colour scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by typak View Post
Hello Paul, to my understanding the portable oil engines in general became very popular in Australia very quickly as against the portable steam engine no wood or water and skilled attendant being required, ....... also it could be said the Akroyd was made in other countries, the US, France and Russia so many parts of the world did not necessarily receive the Hornsby as we know it?
Gday Kim.
Speaking of no skilled attendant,one story in my travels told of a fellow in Queensland who owned a 9.5hp portable(girder),who had a Chinese lackey working for him.The lackey returned to the worksite to find the owner caught up by the coat on the flywheel gib key.As I was told it "the worker noticed the problem and shut the engine off"!

The engine numbers farmed out to those other manufacturing countries were provided to me by Merv via snail mail a few years ago now.I cant recall exactly but ithink it was more than 700 numbers in one block sent to De La Vergne in the States?

Winchester,if it's the one I'm thinking of it was sitting in a shed in the old railway yards at Midland in Perth?The one I walked around was nice old 5hp stationary model from around 1896.It had been featured in an article in the T.O.M.M. a good while back.Quite a gaudy green,and no doubt it was trying to replicate the correct colour for that machine.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-18-2017, 06:54:57 PM
Winchester Winchester is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 896
Thanks: 157
Thanked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

You would be right Paul .It belongs to the Machinery Preservation Club of WA . Yes it is kept at the now defunct Midland Railway Workshops and I guess it is ''Gaudy''!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Winchester For This Post:
  #16  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:09:05 PM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Allansford, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,839
Thanks: 1,805
Thanked 1,710 Times in 824 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

While on the subject of Hornsby Akroyd engines residing in Western Australia Winchester,did you happen to ever have the opportunity to have a close look at the 'very' early 6.5hp portable there that resembled Tranters style of engine?
On my visit to Perth when I visited the railway museum I had the chance to visit a suburb in South Perth and to see this other engine running.
I only have some sketches and measurements from the engine,but I don't have any pictures.It closely resembled my own in many ways but was much earlier and was numbered in the early #1000 mark somewhere.
W.A. is a big state as you know,and I don't know the history of the particular engine prior to my looking at it 10 or 15 years ago.I have often wondered if it was originally sold close to Perth or perhaps down your way?
The little bit of history I do know about it is that it came very close at one stage to becoming an overseas export.It had changed hands here just prior to my seeing it,and I presume that it has followed it's new owner interstate by now?
The handful of these engines over your way or at least the two mentioned here are quite early,and I have often thought that being a small number of sales there as well,perhaps the designers relocation from the UK to the Perth region had influenced those few sales in some way?
Despite what we think in the Eastern states about these machines our experience with them is mostly with engines that I would consider to be a little bit 'late in the game'.
To contradict that thought I have looked at one in Queensland(stationary 3.5hp,unrestored,maroon) that was only 3 digits,in the #300 somewhere,plus I am told the earliest known surviving H.A. here in Australia is a similar stationary unit that was shipped to Tasmania.There is a good chance the QLD unit was shipped to N.S.W prior to federation and purchased from there more recently by it's now owner?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:37:22 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 896
Thanks: 157
Thanked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Paul ,I know of three ,the earliest of these was kept at a museum near Toodyay and was owned by Rex Downey ,now deceased . It was sold but where it is now I have no idea ,it was a very early one ,girder type . The second came from down this way ...well it was near Esperance ,again no idea where it is now . The third would have been the one you viewed at The Midland Workshops, The later would have been built in a period between the other two. Somewhere I have photo's ,I'll attempt to find them and will post them. Yes Stewart Ackroyd did have a WA connection and the firm of Stewart and Llyods was well known.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Winchester For This Post:
  #18  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:57:07 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 896
Thanks: 157
Thanked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Paul,not a good photo ...........this is the one you would have seen at the Midland Railway Workshops
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF4181.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	213.9 KB
ID:	294013  
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:04:00 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Perth Western Australia
Posts: 498
Thanks: 85
Thanked 186 Times in 127 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

This one OK?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04867.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	237.5 KB
ID:	294015  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ray Freeman For This Post:
  #20  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:18:33 PM
Winchester Winchester is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 896
Thanks: 157
Thanked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Ray .any idea what happened to the very early engine that was owned by Rex Downey, it was kept at '' The Barn'' ? There was another ,that post dated the MPC one . It was at the National Rally at Busselton ,I'm sure it was WA based .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Hornsby Akroyd Dusty Antique Gas Engine Discussion 4 02-02-2013 07:41:31 AM
IHC LA Paint Colour Scheme skankingiant Antique Gas Engine Discussion 9 05-21-2012 08:31:25 AM
Hornsby Akroyd goes home jelbart Smokstak Down Under 9 03-07-2010 08:33:17 PM
Hornsby-Akroyd Pix Patrick M Livingstone Antique Engine Archives 0 03-13-2003 08:32:57 AM
Hornsby-Akroyd Patrick M Livingstone Antique Engine Archives 0 03-22-2002 10:19:34 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:40:05 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277