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Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme


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  #21  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:28:15 PM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

No,I don't know.
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2017, 02:01:54 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

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Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
Paul ,I know of three ,the earliest of these was kept at a museum near Toodyay and was owned by Rex Downey ,now deceased . It was sold but where it is now I have no idea ,it was a very early one ,girder type .
This will be the engine that I watched running in a driveway at a private residence in Perth and it had just changed owners prior to my seeing it.
I'm not sure,but would guess that it has followed the new owner away as I don't think he has lived in W.A. for a number of years now?
I don't have any knowledge of any other H.A. portables over that way?
I am fairly sure the engine mentioned here is the only 'heavy' or early design portable originally located in the West,but I am wondering does anything exist there that resembles our engine in Tranters picture at the start?
I guess I'm drawing the distinction between the one we commonly call a 'girder' and those known as 'improved' having a full cast iron crankcase?
I can't recall hearing anything about the existence of others?
I think the original full count over that way might consist of the three already mentioned?
Thanks for the photo's chaps!One of the ex Rex Downey machine would be nice if anybody had one?
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2017, 02:04:59 AM
Inter Bloke Inter Bloke is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

How early was the one that used to be housed at the Carlisle technical school ?

When I was there in the very early 70s it was supposed to be one of the oldest then known, but at that stage I didn't know enough to take it all in. I believe it was shifted somewhere in possibly the 80s or early 90s and would be curious to know more about what it was and where it ended up. I think it had been painted red when I was going there but I don't even know if anyone tried to get the colour scheme correct.
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:20:59 PM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Paul interesting you mention the engine running in the drive way of a private residence.............I am sure that would have been at the home of the late Bert Tyler who was the driving force in the restoration of that engine, the same engine depicted in the photo's submitted by Ray Freeman and yours truly. The engine of course became the property of the Machinery Preservation Club of WA . It is as you mentioned of the ''Cast Base 'type. The engine belonging to Rex Downie was of the ''Girder '' type and a very early model. Rex had a private museum called the ''Barn'' near Tooday east of Perth, I would assume that Rex may have passed on and the museum content sold .....I may be incorrect in this assumption.
There was indeed a third Ackroyd engine and I am hoping I can find a photo or at least some detail to satisfy your interest.
The engine that InterBloke refers to was I am sure not an Ackroyd engine . I am of the opinion that it was a Hornsby but not of an very early type . It was I believe restored by the apprentices at the then ''State Energy Commission '' depot at Carlyle . It then took pride of place in the foyer of the SEC head office building in Wellington St Perth. As I passed each day for the period that I was employed there I recall that was a beautiful restoration and was green.
The same engine did reside at the ''Energy Museum '' in Fremantle for a period .
As I never went to the Carlyle Tech ...it was where the ''Grease Monkey's '' went to learn to be motor mechanics, I cannot describe the engine that Inter Bloke saw there, It may well have been the SEC engine.
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  #25  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:13:17 AM
Inter Bloke Inter Bloke is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Winchester and Paul,

I did a bit of "Googling" to see if I could identify the old Hornsby I remembered as a teenager training as a "grease monkey" while attending Carlisle tech and I believe I may have found out a little. It looks like it may now be in the hands of the WA Museum. There is no photo unfortunately but on their website it states it was presented to the Carlisle technical school by Sandovers and is a 3.5 HP Hornsby Akroyd with the number 9279. They have given it a date of 1900, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually later.

The only reason I mentioned it is that it used to fascinate me as a teenager while I was attending the college. I saw it run on 2 separate occasions, the 3rd and last time they tried to start it while I was there I was working on a lathe in the other end of the engine section and there was a loud explosion and I was told that when they went to start it the hot bulb blew off the end of the cylinder. I didn't get the opportunity to inspect it but that was what we were told happened.

The school was very proud of this engine and we were told it was one of the oldest of its type then known, but this was almost 50 years ago and back then there was very little preservation of old machinery of any sort, and almost nobody was collecting old engines except scrappys. I remember one of my favourite class teachers, a chap named Hans VanLeeuwin telling us a little of the history of the engine, Akroyd Stewart himself and the similarity's and differences between these engines and Diesels. It was one of the engines that sparked my interest in this area so its nice to find out something about it.

Anyway, I remember it being painted red, but as I said before no idea if they even knew or tried to find out if that was correct.
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:37:57 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

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Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
Paul interesting you mention the engine running in the drive way of a private residence.............I am sure that would have been at the home of the late Bert Tyler who was the driving force in the restoration of that engine, the same engine depicted in the photo's submitted by Ray Freeman and yours truly. The engine belonging to Rex Downie was of the ''Girder '' type and a very early model. Rex had a private museum called the ''Barn'' near Tooday east of Perth, I would assume that Rex may have passed on and the museum content sold .....I may be incorrect in this assumption.
There was indeed a third Ackroyd engine and I am hoping I can find a photo or at least some detail to satisfy your interest.
Thanks Winchester and Ray for those photo's.The early girder style 6.5hp was owned by an acquaintance while he lived there in Perth.It might be 10 years ago when I was there looking at it?
I never met Bert Tyler,and I'm sorry to confuse the story by not giving you all the information.
I regret now not taking any photographs of the 'Barn' engine as it was quite an interesting engine.It was similar to my own in form but you could clearly see that 10 years was quite a long time at the time when it came to the issue of finish,fittings etc.The drive pulley on that engine for instance was quite a large diameter approaching that of the flywheel,and having a very heavy profile to it's rim plus a large embossed part number that appeared to match the style of other cast component numbers.The centre ball of the governor resembled the one on the green engine that you and Ray posted,but having a much more stunted parallel section at the top between the ball section and the top bead.The brass valves and cocks etc were much more distinctly steam related in style,and if you remember it at all the nameplate was curved around the back of the cooling tower and was very large,perhaps being several kgs of bronze if I remember it correctly.
It was quite a learning experience while attempting to start the engine and I instantly learned one of the possible reasons why the preheat blowers were both superseded by the manufacturer,and why some were discarded by owners.While preheating the hotbulb in the usual way the little furnace or lamp usually burns dry of kerosene and the top 1/3 or so of it glows red hot.This is all very fine and well until you find that perhaps you bungle the first attempt at starting.From there,every continued attempt means another gulp of cool air,cooling the hotbulb again.If you wish to maximise on the heat that you had initially built up on the first try,it means that you must think about refuelling a still very hot preheat furnace
That was our experience on the day I was there,and the owner took the risk in filling the furnace again.The engine was inside of a double garage with the door open,but the result was that the whole shed filled from and to end with a thick blanket of white kerosene vapour.I think relighting at that stage would have been disasterous!?We opened up all doors and windows but eventually decided to roll the engine out of the shed for the next try which was successful.
Of the original portables I have known of,some were stationed long term inside a barn or shed for supplying power to a chaffcutter.In this kind of situation it's very likely that failed starts using the original furnace preheater would have been the source of plenty of annoyance and delays.Having the steady supply of warmth from the pressure lamp in starting I think would have been a world of difference.
I would enjoy taking a look at the other engine if you can manage to find a picture,thanks.
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:13:24 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Another view if its any help
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:16:39 AM
Winchester Winchester is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Thanks InterBloke ..........your recollections are I am sure more accurate than mine. As you attended Carlyle Tech I stand corrected. I recall that the engine that was in the foyer of the SEC building was an ex power station unit......perhaps it is still in the foyer.
Paul .I will try and find details of the third Akroyd engine .
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:03:04 AM
Paul Richardson Paul Richardson is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inter Bloke View Post
Winchester and Paul,

I did a bit of "Googling" to see if I could identify the old Hornsby I remembered as a teenager training as a "grease monkey" while attending Carlisle tech and I believe I may have found out a little. It was presented to the Carlisle technical school by Sandovers and is a 3.5 HP Hornsby Akroyd with the number 9279. They have given it a date of 1900, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually later.

Anyway, I remember it being painted red, but as I said before no idea if they even knew or tried to find out if that was correct.
Inter Bloke,i think your suspicion would most likely prove to be right about the age of that engine?It is getting fairly late with the number #9279.Certainly it's early enough to be an Akroyd patent engine.It's most likely a 1904 arrival here, possibly only a few months earlier than Tranters portable Akroyd?Mine has a shipping date in 1903 with the number #6988.
Sometimes a local oral history will inadvertently change things around a little,as I'm sure you have experienced yourself.I'm not sure how official the term is,but quite a few times in literature about Hornsby Akroyd engines the 'improved' models like Tranters,(and most likely the Carlisle Tech engine) are referred to as "1900 style Hornsby Akroyds".
It's likely that you were subject to the best available local information at the time?

Last edited by Paul Richardson; 10-22-2017 at 09:36:27 AM.
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:01:27 AM
Inter Bloke Inter Bloke is offline
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Default Re: Hornsby Akroyd Colour Scheme

Winchester,
I think that when I found out the Carlisle engine had been removed from the tech school whoever it was that told me said it was for a short time put on display somewhere in Perth alongside another Akroyd. This apparently didn't last for very long but it may have been on the SEC site you are talking about. There havn't been very many Akroyds on public display that I am aware of so this just "might" be the case.

Interesting !

Graham
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