Generators and Electric Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor


this thread has 13 replies and has been viewed 368 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:35:46 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Hi all. I've had this old exhaust fan sitting around for quite a while now, and have gotten interested in getting it working. However, I'm not sure what to make of the electric plug. The tag says the motor is 115vac 2 amp single phase, but it has four leads from the plug. I'm pretty ignorant on electric motors, so maybe someone here is familiar with these types of plugs and can tell me if this can be converted to work on a regular 115v household outlet with the standard NEMA 5-15p plug. Pics (hopefully) attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190720_152121_21.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	208.3 KB
ID:	340522   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190801_115359_21.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	175.8 KB
ID:	340523   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190801_121558_21.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	106.0 KB
ID:	340524   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190801_121936_21.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	119.7 KB
ID:	340525  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to garycolwill For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:39:44 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

I'm also wondering what decade this may have come from, so if anyone can guess at that based on the images that would be appreciated. The Emerson company out of St Louis still exists, but the sold their electric motor business to Nidec Motors (also out of St Louis) and the new owners tried to be helpful, but simply have no records of a product with this model number that matches this description.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:47:42 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,022
Thanks: 9,963
Thanked 2,848 Times in 1,913 Posts
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Nice fan! Want to sell it?

The motor is two speed, so that would require at least three leads. Possible the fourth one is just a ground. Only way to tell for sure is to open it up and have a look see at how it's connected.

Oh, for the era, I'd guess 1950's?

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:20:45 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Actually, I'm trying to prep this for sale. I don't want to give it away or scrap it, so if I can show that it runs, I'll have a much better chance of selling it. My overarching goal is to clear down my backlog of projects so that I only have my one main project left (restoring a 1957 Cushman barrel spring Truckster). With that goal in mind, any reasonable offer would be accepted.

Back to the question: I'm wondering how I can tell what each lead does. I suspect a multimeter will help me figure this out, but not sure how to check.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:09:27 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,022
Thanks: 9,963
Thanked 2,848 Times in 1,913 Posts
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

I honestly don't have feeling for what a value or fair price may be... But I agree that you're much better off if you can demonstrate that it runs.

To determine which wire does what, the best way is to open up the terminal box. There should be some labels in there that we can decipher.

I would *assume* that this is a split phase motor, since the speeds are clearly are that of six poles and eight poles. When those are multi speed, they always start on high, then switch to the desired speed when the centrifugal switch operates to cut out the start winding. So an ohmmeter wouldn't really help figure out which is which, except for the ground wire, since both low and high wires are connected to high plus start while at rest.

You *might* be able to find the common wire this way. The two speed wires should show as ~shorted to one another. Between either of those and the common wire will show perhaps a few ohms. At that point you could probably try it, carefully ready to switch it off. Don't want to ruin it!

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:31:32 PM
John Newman, Jr.'s Avatar
John Newman, Jr. John Newman, Jr. is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
Posts: 5,308
Thanks: 763
Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,661 Posts
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

First thing I would check is to see if one lead is a ground. Look for continuity from one of the wires to the frame.
__________________
John Newman, Jr.
Saint Louis, MO

I Can Probably Fix That
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:35:53 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

I checked all four leads between each other and between each and the frame. All of the light colored leads show from 13.8 to 14.5 ohms between them, but the one darker colored lead is open between all other leads and ground.

There's also another problem, which is probably pretty common for motors of this vintage: insulation is breaking down. Also, I took the top cover off and it's just a bearing cover. I took the four screws of the body and it doesn't budge, so I'm not sure how to get to the wiring.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bad-insulation.JPG
Views:	14
Size:	95.3 KB
ID:	340562  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:41:45 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

More pics, in case any of you can see a detail I'm overlooking, regarding getting inside this motor.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	back.JPG
Views:	22
Size:	43.3 KB
ID:	340563   Click image for larger version

Name:	side.JPG
Views:	23
Size:	35.4 KB
ID:	340564  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:53:57 PM
Power Power is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,366
Thanks: 1,235
Thanked 3,217 Times in 1,896 Posts
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Why would you open it up???

It was warm inside motor, there was ozone, so cloth covered rubber insulation deteriorated and is probably very brittle. Opening it can cause problems.
Glue lined heat shrink tubing can be used to repair damaged insulation.
For testing, a 200 watt bulb in series with motor will prevent damage.
The picture is not clear. Looks like it might be 4 prong plug that went to a proprietary controller.
I suspect 2 speeds and reverse rotation to reverse air flow.
You can easily tell difference between 1140 and 860 Rpm
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:11:46 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

I wanted to open it up because that was what was suggested earlier. :-)

Thanks for the bulb idea - I'll give it a try.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:48:28 PM
Ozlander Ozlander is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Rose Hill, Kansas
Posts: 40
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Without the controller you have nothing but junk.
Pitch it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-01-2019, 11:18:05 PM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozlander View Post
Without the controller you have nothing but junk.
Pitch it.
Are we allowed to use "lol" in this forum?

This might be the way this goes. Still, maybe I'll get a little pleasure out of playing with it. I may keep the housing and blade and find a different motor if I can't figure this one out.

---------- Post added at 08:18:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09:48 PM ----------

Maybe this one would fit...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Ele...97f69ecffffb5e
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-01-2019, 11:37:02 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,022
Thanks: 9,963
Thanked 2,848 Times in 1,913 Posts
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Yeah, I was the one that suggested opening it up. So we can figure out what each wire does. Like the 200 watt bulb idea.

The nearly equal resistance between each wire makes me rethink it being split phase. It may be that it is a capacitor motor. The cap going between two of the wires. Just guessing.

Certainly not junk. Whatever it plugged into can easily be recreated if need be. Even if it needed to be rewound. You just don't throw old stuff away. Look at the quality of that thing. Irreplaceable.

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-02-2019, 12:43:23 AM
garycolwill garycolwill is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chino Hills, California
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Emerson Electric MFG Fan Duty Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Yeah, I was the one that suggested opening it up. So we can figure out what each wire does. Like the 200 watt bulb idea.

The nearly equal resistance between each wire makes me rethink it being split phase. It may be that it is a capacitor motor. The cap going between two of the wires. Just guessing.

Certainly not junk. Whatever it plugged into can easily be recreated if need be. Even if it needed to be rewound. You just don't throw old stuff away. Look at the quality of that thing. Irreplaceable.

Keith
I think so too.

Anyway, I just grit my teeth and picked two random light-colored wires and plugged connected them to 115vac, and heard a humming. I had to manually spin the fan a small bit, then it picked up speed and away it went.

https://youtu.be/9Tp16kibkKE

Sorry for the short crappy video, but it WORKS! I'll post more later if anyone is interested.

---------- Post added at 09:43:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41:51 PM ----------

BTW, very proud of the custom stand I made to test this on. :-)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Emerson 1/3HP Motor Fred Berry Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 5 09-26-2017 04:52:27 PM
Emerson motor id help! Ekegelmann Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 18 03-19-2016 06:24:41 PM
Emerson Motor for? Ideas? Ekegelmann Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 2 01-02-2016 06:59:48 AM
Emerson, antique electric motor TomFG Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 5 10-01-2015 12:11:46 PM
Old Emerson Repulsion Motor Pentode Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 3 02-22-2007 12:43:51 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00:38 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277