Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs Discussion about magnetos, buzz coils, spark plugs, ignitors and low tension coils.

Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs

Hercules E 2 1/2 HP with Webster AK mag and spark plug???


this thread has 4 replies and has been viewed 440 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:30:59 AM
Qurple Qurple is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 37
Thanks: 10
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Question Hercules E 2 1/2 HP with Webster AK mag and spark plug???

I recently started working on this engine and the ignition system is in a crazy state. The igniter points have been replaced with a spark plug (see pic) connected to the output of the Webster AK magneto. My understanding is the the Webster AK could never fire a spark plug so I took the mag apart and discovered that there is nothing on the armature shaft (see pic).

The other end of the mag coil is connected to the mag body as usual so the mag coil wasn't being used in some kind of jerry-rigged high tension setup. Also a high tension setup would require a set of points, condenser, and some kind of timing mechanism, all of which are absent.

So what's the easiest way to get this engine running? To fire the spark plug I would need to come up with an entire high tension system. To get back to the original system I would need to repair the mag and get a new set of points. How did the original points attach to the bracket? Has the bracket been modified to accommodate the spark plug and now the igniter points won't fit? This may be the deciding factor in where I go from here...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-31-2018, 12:41:37 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 13,408
Thanks: 1,895
Thanked 6,191 Times in 4,003 Posts
Exclamation Re: Hercules E 2 1/2 HP with Webster AK mag and spark plug???

The AK has field coils placed on the outer armature of the magneto. The rotating armature makes and breaks the magnetic field, which imparts a voltage surge thru the coils. There are no windings on the core. The AK puts out about 10 volts, definitely not enough to fire a plug. If the 303 K-26 mag mount is still there, where is the plug mounted? The igniter shaft should have a spring that holds the igniter shaft toward the outside. There should be a trip arm with a screw on it, held in place by a small woodruff key and a nut on the end of the shaft, so that the AK can open the igniter points at the correct time. The igniter is part of the mount If the igniter has been drilled out to accept the spark plug, then you need to replace the igniter assembly. It was built by Webster, using the above numbers. You can try one of the magneto repair folks that are on the Stak sponsor pages or try H&M Enterprises and see if Ed has a replacement for you. If the igniter is still there, You can get replacement parts as I said, from sponsors here on the Stak. Your other option is to get an entire WICO EK ignition assembly - plug and mag mount and trip mechanism. that is do=able but not original to your engine. You could jury rid a battery and coil too, and keep the spark plug. The Webster AK will not work as you have it.
Andrew
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Andrew Mackey For This Post:
  #3  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:31:57 AM
forney00c forney00c is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bellwood, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 223
Thanks: 102
Thanked 100 Times in 53 Posts
Default Re: Hercules E 2 1/2 HP with Webster AK mag and spark plug???

I'm not sure how the ignitor is set up, but would it be possible to drill the threaded hole out and install a bushing back to the size of the ignitor shaft and put an ignitor back together on the original Webster bracket?

Also, this looks really familiar for some reason. Would you happen to have a picture or two of the engine as a whole? There was one near me that looked like someone tried the same setup. Had a pretty large repair on the pulley side water jacket.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to forney00c For This Post:
  #4  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:59:59 AM
Qurple Qurple is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 37
Thanks: 10
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Hercules E 2 1/2 HP with Webster AK mag and spark plug???

forney,

This is the same engine you saw. I bought it at an auction in David City. There are some pics in this post.

The fix you describe would probably work, but I'm not a machinist so I'm a bit afraid of the cost. I'm not super concerned with getting the engine back to original condition; I just want to see it run again. It sure looks like the engine ran with this crazy ignition somehow, but the more I think about it I'm forced to conclude that it had to be a work in progress where someone had bolted up a lot of parts without really thinking it through.

I've drawn up plans for a high tension ignition system using automotive ignition parts timed off the mag trip finger. If that works I will consider rebuilding the webster mag to eliminate the battery.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-02-2018, 01:49:38 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coopernook. N.S.W. Australia
Posts: 1,394
Thanks: 2,731
Thanked 602 Times in 410 Posts
Default Re: Hercules E 2 1/2 HP with Webster AK mag and spark plug???

The cost to make a plug and re-use the original ignitor would not be expensive at all. I would research that idea before any others and it would keep your engine original.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Hercules 1 1/2horse E ignitor or spark plug mag473 Antique Gas Engine Discussion 2 06-05-2014 10:46:58 PM
Hercules spark plug Buckshot Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs 2 07-24-2012 10:59:45 AM
Correct spark plug for Hercules JI/JK Stevie Antique Gas Engine Discussion 0 06-22-2012 07:37:11 PM
What type of spark plug goes in a hercules engine 1 3/4 Temple2426 Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs 5 07-29-2009 04:10:39 PM
Spark Plug For 2ho Jaeger/Hercules engine wegotallama Antique Gas Engine Discussion 12 12-15-2008 05:10:31 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:13:36 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277