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Farm Pumper - newbie help


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  #21  
Old 10-15-2013, 04:56:56 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobbadog View Post
Could the serial number be stamped in the tail of the direction arrow on the flywheel?
No not on a Southern Cross number was only on flywheel rime and most times on end of crankshaft
Buzacott, Roseberry, F&J had the number on the arrow tail
Ian

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

RIM not rime to many fingers working at once
Ian
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2013, 06:16:08 AM
Paulwolf350 Paulwolf350 is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Nothing in the arrow tail that I can find. I have a couple of other places to look when I get home.

It has 20 fins on the barrel and j23 cast into the flywheel

Other than that not much to go on, but I will sort it out eventually


Paul

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

I will have a better look at the flywheel rim to see if there is a number, thanks Rusty

Paul

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

There is nothing on the flywheel end of the crank, it has a step machined in the end with nowhere to stamp, it is only 1/8" wide.

Unless its on the other end, for some reason forgot to look - too keen to clean up the flywheel, the crank appears to be without number.

Just to be sure, rusty engines, front rim of flywheel or outside rim? I'm pretty excited to hear its an early example


Paul
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2013, 09:08:04 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

front rim of flywheel or outside rim
On the outside next to the 'SPARK' line
Ian

---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 PM ----------

I believe that this engine is either a re-badged Fuller & Johnson farm pump engine, or a close copy. You may be able to use Fuller & Johnson parts, which turn up from time to time. Getting them shipped to Australia might be expensive, though!
Some Southern Cross History
From the book Southern Cross engines by Rob Laurent
By the mid 1920s the tariff on imported American engines had forced the price of the F&J Farm Pump up to an unreasonably high level. Accordingly, the Toowoomba Foundry decided to follow the lead set by the Rosebery Company in Sydney , which had begun making a copy of the F&J Farm Pump. This decision was made in 1926, and in December 1927 the Foundry begain marking the Southern Cross Farm Pumper
Although the Southern Cross machine looked the same as the F&J there were several differenceces the F&J had cylinder had 24 fins the Southern Cross had 20 etc etc etc
For the American readers there were lots of copies of the F&J made in Australia the best know ones Buzacott & Rosebery one that Southern Cross sold in the early 1920s was called ‘Challenge Farm Pump’ cast into the flywheel, it is not sure who made it but thought to have been made by the Rosebery Company of Sydney
Ian
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  #24  
Old 10-18-2013, 05:50:41 AM
Paulwolf350 Paulwolf350 is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

I have had a bit of a poke around on the flywheel with a wire brush and indeed under the crud and rust is a line with the word spark and engine number 2104

so this is an early southern cross pumper, about 1932. need to do some more research


Paul
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  #25  
Old 10-18-2013, 06:11:15 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Paul
J 2104 (Farm Pumper)
Batch 2057-2155
Year 1933
Something is not right with your engine, your engine should have a solid disc bevel gear
Your flywheel only has one line of writing which is right for 1933
The bevel gear engines the flywheel had a number of lines on writhing on the flywheel face
So maybe the flywheel has been change or the bevel wheel has been changed
Or just maybe it has been made up out of a number of different engines, which is what farmers did just to kept them going
Ian
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  #26  
Old 10-18-2013, 07:22:03 AM
Paulwolf350 Paulwolf350 is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

yes,

it also has the petrol start primer which makes it a kerosene carby, which suggests 1933 is correct as well. It is a conundrum, will keep unravelling the secrets

Paul
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  #27  
Old 10-19-2013, 01:51:22 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Yes 1933 is when the kero carby was standered BUT also you could buy a conversion kit
What is also different with your engine for 1933 it should have trip Wico on the side of the engine, which again I think it has been made up out of parts over the years
Ian
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  #28  
Old 10-20-2013, 07:27:04 AM
OzzieHawker OzzieHawker is offline
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Photo Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Ian,
I have a Southern Cross pumper serial number 9356 wich seems a bit late for a pumper, Maybe an incorrect stamp. I was given this engine by the origanal owner, from what he can remember he purchased it very close to the end of there production, Also have a plain flywheel wico type pumper aswell dated 1935 from the SC register, it has the original spoked beveled gear? I thought they changed in 1930 but I don't always believe so, have seen a few others around the same age with the spoked gear too.
Mick.
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  #29  
Old 10-20-2013, 08:10:00 PM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Mike
The farm pumpers were made from 1927 to 1959 the last farm pumper number is 57034 made 1959
You number 9356 batch 9351-9400 year 1941
With spoked wheel I'm only going on by the research done by Rob Laurent when he wrote the book Southern Cross Engines and YES I/we have found some small errors in the book so now maybe with might have one here as to just when the bevel gear 1930 was changed and the wico mag fitted 1933 I will have to contact Rob for some more info. Maybe it was not at the first engine for 1930
Also have a plain flywheel wico type pumper aswell dated 1935 from the SC register
Southern Cross did not make a plain flywheel, where did you find the number on that engine?
All Southern Cross products windmill, pumps, engines etc all had Southern Cross on them somewhere
Ian
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:19:09 AM
OzzieHawker OzzieHawker is offline
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Photo Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Ian,
Thanks, I totally missed those serial numbers in the register.
My 1935 SC pumper flywheel is not totaly plain, has J 25 with the arrow & serial number is in the tail.
I knew the person who seviced it from the late 50's to the end of it's working life,1970's.
From what he knew this pumper was original & believes the large spoked beveled gear had never been changed.
Pic taken just before the end of its restoration 7 years ago, not quite that pretty any more.

Mick.
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  #31  
Old 10-21-2013, 08:32:42 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Mick
Your engine is not a Southern Cross, it is most likely a Buzacott or Roseberry as they had the engine numbers stamped on the tail of the arrow and they used the spoked bevel gear wheel as far as I know for all their engines
http://www.oldengine.org/members/pml/young031.html
I'm told some of the last F&J engines made also had a plain flywheel also all F&J engines had the number stamped on the arrow tail
Ian
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2013, 04:05:13 PM
OzzieHawker OzzieHawker is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Ian,
Has the matching serial numbers on the crank end & fuel cap aswell.
All the top end is SC including the tank, all the numbers match up? It also retains the original SC pump jack too.
Cheers,
Mick.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:18:15 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Mike
You have get me interested
I have never seen the number on the fuel cap
How many fins does it have
The fuel tanks on most of the farm pumper makers all look the same
The pump jack could of been fitted at point of sale
I still find it hard to believe that the engine was made by Southern Cross and not at some time been repaired with different parts fitted
Could you send me some pictures, you can find my email address on the Southern Cross register site
Ian

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Hi Paul

Your engine by the number 2104
Magneto number 9k213314
Order number B17761
Sold 11/5/1933
Sold through the Rockhampton office
Sold to J Martin - Banana
Tested on the 10/3/1933

Ian
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2013, 08:05:15 AM
OzzieHawker OzzieHawker is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Ian,
Have just had a mass move everything is still packed away.
Some of my pumpers are out of town due to lack of space but I do have a stamped SC fuel cap handy, will send a pic through in a couple of days.
Have owned about 10 different pumpers in the passed 2 or 3 of wich had the stamped cap, all SC.

Mick.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2013, 04:07:58 AM
OzzieHawker OzzieHawker is offline
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Photo Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Engines View Post
Hi Mike
You have get me interested
I have never seen the number on the fuel cap
How many fins does it have
The fuel tanks on most of the farm pumper makers all look the same
The pump jack could of been fitted at point of sale
I still find it hard to believe that the engine was made by Southern Cross and not at some time been repaired with different parts fitted
Could you send me some pictures, you can find my email address on the Southern Cross register site
Ian

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Hi Paul

Your engine by the number 2104
Magneto number 9k213314
Order number B17761
Sold 11/5/1933
Sold through the Rockhampton office
Sold to J Martin - Banana
Tested on the 10/3/1933

Ian
Hi Ian, Pics of the SC pumper tank with stamped cap.
Have another somewhere but can't put my hand on it.
I'm sure these could't be the only one's, there must be more.
Mick.
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  #36  
Old 10-24-2013, 06:25:02 AM
muzzery muzzery is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi. I am restoring a farm pumper, and it sounds similar to this. I have a plain flywheel, spoked drive wheel, and the number 11383 stamped into the arrow tail. I can't comment on the fuel tank or lid, as I bought the tank off eBay. (I got a copper tank, unlike yours which appears to be metal/ galvanised?) it will be interesting to learn what brand, as I would like to choose an authentic colour if possible.
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  #37  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:35:08 PM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

I would say the copper tank is wrong someone has made it up
With vibrations - hit and miss- action of the engine the copper tank would work harden and crack/brake
late model Buzacott/Roseberry pumpers had a plain flywheel with the number in the tail
Colour, except for Southern Cross which had 3 colours all the others appear to be only dark green

OzzieHawker's pumper even though it might have some SC parts is looking not to be a Southern Cross (whole engine) Rob Larrent And I are still doing more research
Ian
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  #38  
Old 10-28-2013, 04:09:02 AM
Paulwolf350 Paulwolf350 is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Engines View Post
Hi Paul

Your engine by the number 2104
Magneto number 9k213314
Order number B17761
Sold 11/5/1933
Sold through the Rockhampton office
Sold to J Martin - Banana
Tested on the 10/3/1933

Ian
cheers, hasn't travelled too far at all then, I am in Rockhampton.

the Magneto I pulled off this engine is a bosch and cannot seem to find the number you have quoted. The magneto has been apart before judging by the screw heads so maybe this engine has been repaired prior.

I have started cleaning up the bore but is still very pitted all the way up the bore, I am wondering if it will even have enough compression to run, should I run with it? or chase up a better barrel.

can anyone tell me the original colour for a '33 southern cross pumper?


Paul
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  #39  
Old 10-29-2013, 04:33:07 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Paul
Your engine Huntington Green

PAINT COLOURS FOR ENGINES

Hello
According to SC literature the green is called Huntington Green (also written as Huntingdon Green). I haven't ever seen this colour on sale but it must be listed in old colour catalogues. It has less black in it than Brunswick green.

Many of the engines from the B series on (1945) were painted Indian Red (the same colour used by Queensland Rail for their old wooden carriages).

There were two shades of grey. They started using a pale grey in the 1950s and a darker Machinery grey in the 1960s. Also in the 60s they started painting some of the air cooled diesels a bright red. I've seen some blue engines from this period too, as well as some yellow ones. There were also some aqua coloured engines (blue-green). I can't give you exact dates when they began using these colours.

Many YBs were green with a black head. some YBs had a couple of yellow pin stripes on the face of the flywheel. Some of the first diesels (the Y types) were painted black and others were green. I've been told that the experimental engines were usually silver.

Rob Laurent * The author of the book SOUTHREN CROSS ENGINES
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  #40  
Old 10-30-2013, 01:38:24 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Farm pumper - newbie help

Hi Ian,
I am guessing that when you say 'Brunswick Green' are you referring to Dark, Mid or Light Brunswick Green?
Colours can e a pain in the rear end at times. Our David Brown is supposed to be Huntington Pink which is a terrible reddish colour. We want it to be a fair dinkum RED so we will select one when it is time.
Last time I visited Supercheap auto I noticed on the shelf a pre mixed can of John Deere green paint which surprised me being in an auto store.
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