Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion > Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.)
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) Restoring, maintaining and operating Generac generators.

Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.)

15kw Carrier (Generac)


this thread has 20 replies and has been viewed 9236 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-23-2011, 09:18:58 AM
marc23760 marc23760 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default 15kw Carrier (Generac)

To those who have worked with these units before...

I have what i think to be a 2005 Carrier 15kw NG/LP genset which i am assuming is made by generac. Bought it from a trusted friend who never heard it ran. It has been sitting for years and i finally got it all wired and hooked up but it won't start. I had a guy come look at it who indicated to me that each cylinder had 60lbs of compression which, according to him, was way too low. He thinks i may have a burned up head or a piston problem.

The engine cranks (and cranks clean) and almosts starts when i initally go to start it, but then it just cranks and cranks. I have spark, and i can smell natural gas when cranking it but i cant get it to completely start (it just barely fires a few times at first). And i made sure it is set up for NG.

at this point i am married to the unit because i have already buried and ran all the conduit, copper, and gas lines to get it up and running. I am looking for the most economical way to not go broke trying to fix it. I have a lot experience with small engines but never with a natural gas fired engine.

Any thoughts ?

It is a Carrier 15kw Genset Model #: ASPAS1CCA015

Not to mention Florida has a possible storm on the way...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-23-2011, 09:50:21 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,197 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

If it almost starts, it may have been run on LP which would mean the mixture is set to lean for NG. Get yourself a can of spray carb cleaner. When you try to start it, spray some of the carb cleaner into the carb/intake. If it starts and run as long as you spray, you need to rich-en the mixture on your fuel system. If you can not figure out where the mixture adjustment is on your fuel system, post many pictures of your fuel system. Then I bet we can point you in the right direction.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-23-2011, 12:07:05 PM
Motorhead's Avatar
Motorhead Motorhead is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 4,858
Thanks: 2,703
Thanked 3,786 Times in 1,869 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

If an engine hasn't been run in sometime, the compression can be low. I would check the valve clearance, this is something I ALWAYS do when I get a new/old engine project.
You can also put about 1-2 teaspoons of light oil in each cylinder and that will raise the compression to get it started.
As said in above post, make sure what fuel it was jetted for.

My diesel Dayton/Generac 8kw hadn't been run in several years. It took some cranking and it had a valve sticking open some. It smoothed out after 30 seconds.
I later removed the head to check the valves and head gasket out before I put it into service. I lapped the valves and replaced the head gasket. Runs like a top now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Dayton 006 (Small).jpg
Views:	114
Size:	67.8 KB
ID:	113821  
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-23-2011, 01:13:05 PM
marc23760 marc23760 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Tried some carb cleaner, it actually still does the exact same thing. when i first go to start it, it almost starts then back to cranking.

It was confirmed to be LP when i got it. I had to remove the LP jet (per the repair manual) in order to convert it back to NG. But the almost starting act its doing now it was also doing when it was still set up for NG.

as far as the valve lash, i am getting almost exact same readings for compression in both cylinders. 60 and 61 could the valves still be out of wack?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-23-2011, 03:04:24 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Floyd, AR, USA
Posts: 2,915
Thanks: 337
Thanked 1,394 Times in 907 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

BOTH cylinders? According to your model# you have a 4cyl mitsu water cooled engine:

http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc...PASL1507-1.pdf

If it was mine, I would NOT crank it again till I had the timing cover off and checked that it had not jumped time or been set up wrong. Your engine WILL bend valves if it gets too far out of time or the belt falls off. It could be too late already... Having all the cylinders equal and low is classic symptom of being out of time. Only once you are sure the timing belt is set up correctly, then go to some oil in the spark plug holes. If you can't get above 60 PSI compression, you got a real problem somewhere, and I doubt that it will ever run right.


Robert
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-23-2011, 04:22:31 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,176
Thanks: 459
Thanked 6,533 Times in 3,062 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

http://www.xpedio.carrier.com/idc/gr...maspas07-2.pdf

According to this, it is a 2 cylinder, air cooled, for all practical purposes a "Generac".

Figure I may as well break the bad news, Generac is also very proud of their parts. If it needs much, you may end up spending $$$. I have called various dealers before and some appear to get some odd satisfaction out of telling you that whatever part you need will cost half as much as a new set.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-23-2011, 06:04:00 PM
marc23760 marc23760 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Attached is a photo of the serial and model#

It has carrier's name on it. 2 cylinder air cooled. If i cannot come up with any more ideas my next step is going to be pulling the heads off.

I have heard that guys sometimes attempt to run these things off propane bottles which roasts the heads; however, with the cylinders being the exact same low compression, i would bet on a timing problem as well.

im open to any other feedback. Thanks for all the info.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	genset.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	44.7 KB
ID:	113865  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-23-2011, 06:27:34 PM
Douglas123 Douglas123 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 435
Thanks: 140
Thanked 148 Times in 113 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Let me do some checking. I have been getting confused here lately by who is making what for whom. Don't hold me to this but I think Briggs & Stratton actually built the unit for Carrier or might be thinking of Trane. Post some detailed picks of the complete and we can nail this down. It still probably has the 990 briggs style engine on it. Does the fuel regulator look like a mini gas meter with a solenoid on top and have to adjutsers for mix, one on each side?

Yep It was in fact built by Generac and has the GT990 briggs style engine. Looked at the owners manual previously posted. MAMA fixing dinner. PM with E-mail and will send you sercive manual for engine after dinner
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:04:17 PM
DPeterik DPeterik is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
Posts: 74
Thanks: 9
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

To start with a few basics. Make sure that the power to the fuel shut of is active through the first cranks cycle. This is the 14 wire on the solenoid. Should have battery voltage through the first crank cycle. Next pull off the air cleaner cover and check to make sure that the choke plate cycles during cranking. Also check the fuel selector, located in the air box. IN is NG, out is LPV. Check wiring at the oil pressure switch and at the insulated stud for the ignition coils. If this unit is not seeing oil pressure the switch stays in a closed state to ground. Circuit needs to stay open during operation. Also there is a thermal switch in series with this circuit also. Wire 18. May need to pull the front shroud and check air gap of the coils. Then you will need to check valve adjustment. If this unit sat for time you said, the rings could just be stuck in the lands and will free up once it runs. DO NOT USE ANY STARTING AIDS. I have seen the ring lands break from this.
Once Douglas123 sends you a manual this will explain a bit more in detail.

I can hook you up with parts if needed.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:32:45 PM
smallen smallen is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: riverview,fl usa
Posts: 43
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

that is a generac 4390, rebadged,painted gray
what is your gas pressure while cranking,check spark with good spark tester
if you smell gas,the engine is pulling enough intake vacuum to pull the gas valve open or you have too high gas pressure
try new set of plugs
use a screw in type compression tester
do leak down test on cylinders before you pull heads, this will tell you why it low,rings,head gasket or which valves, then you will know what needs fixed
some carb cleaner dont work too good,try starter fluid with the ng valve off.
if it starts the turn valve back on and try again

if all else fails pm me,im east of tampa, generac and carrier dealer

this unit is to old to have the fuel selector inside the air box, its set with the propane jet at the regulator
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to smallen For This Post:
  #11  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:40:20 PM
Douglas123 Douglas123 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 435
Thanks: 140
Thanked 148 Times in 113 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Yum Dinner was good,back to business. Compression on engine should be 160-190. Manual was over 15 MB need to compress and zip. will give it a try. Suggests pressurising with 90 psi.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-24-2011, 07:58:13 AM
marc23760 marc23760 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

After a little digging, it is a generac painted grey with carrier's badging.

It has the gas meter looking regulator with the adjusters on both sides at the regulator. As smallen mentioned, its too old to have the adjuster inside the airbox.

i managed to find a the full 144 page repair manual on line.

screw in type compression tester is what gave me the 60 and 61 lbs. According to douglas; it sounds wayyyy too low.

thanksfor all the insight fellas.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:56:16 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Faunsdale, Alabama USA
Posts: 4,436
Thanks: 71
Thanked 1,185 Times in 967 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

I would squirt some (1/2 tsp or 2ml) motor oil in each cylinder, crank it over to distribute the oil around and then replace the sparkplugs and see if it will start. If it does, it's likely that the rings and or cylinders are simply worn out. You can also do that with your compression test, compression should Pull the head off and inspect the cylinder for wear/scoring. If you don't think you will go ahead and overhaul this engine, you will be ahead to leave it alone and sell it to someone who will. Lots of folks balk once they see how steep the slippery slope of this type project is! Engine winds up taken apart in boxes and waste a lot of time etc.

It's possible that the thing overheated and the rings lost their tension. Might be a candidate for a light hone and a set of rings. Of course no telling what that might cost. If you can find an automotive application for the engine, you might be able to save some money on the parts over buying from Generac.

If it overheated, then could also have cracked head as well.

I meant to say that compression should increase quite a bit after putting the oil in the cylinders if the rings and cylinders are worn.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-24-2011, 06:29:21 PM
smallen smallen is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: riverview,fl usa
Posts: 43
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

this unit was sold in tampa 7/2005, in 11/2005 engine was blowing oil into air cleaner box, 12/2005 engine wouldnt start,found 60 psi on both cylinders, unit was replaced by carrier under warranty, your unit was sent back to carrier to be scraped,
looks like the person that purchased it for scrap/parts had other ideas
this unit has very low hours on it, may be just blown head gaskets or rings never seated properly
do leak down test before you pull heads,see (hear) where the air is leaking
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to smallen For This Post:
  #15  
Old 08-24-2011, 06:45:34 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,176
Thanks: 459
Thanked 6,533 Times in 3,062 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Just wanted to point out that "smallen" appears to be a welcome exception to the kind of dealer I described earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-24-2011, 07:04:10 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Floyd, AR, USA
Posts: 2,915
Thanks: 337
Thanked 1,394 Times in 907 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

OUCH!

I would vote for the leakdown test as well. You are simply putting compressed air into a cylinder. You put the piston at TDC (you have to be exact or the engine will roll over) and put air pressure into the spart plug hole, generally with the same or similar adapter used for a compression test. (you have to pull the schrader valve and run the pressure through a regulator). I would pull the oil cap first! It's likely all going into the crankcase. How many hours are on the unit total? It shouldn't be more then 20 hours or so if it never made it past 6 months of life. If it has hundreds of hours, sounds like the 2005 hurricane season killed it (possibly aided by lack of maintinence or overloading)

Robert
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:46:43 PM
Douglas123 Douglas123 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 435
Thanks: 140
Thanked 148 Times in 113 Posts
Smile Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Thanks for divulging that tid bit of very important info. Had a similar unit Generac log different problem and had a multitude of warranty and service calls against it and no success on repairs. Been a non working unit since new six years old. Customer was very patient while repairs were done properly and did not question the repair ticket and Generac even kicked in a few parts No Charge. Customer thought she would be more excited that their system was now working guess ,she was still in shock that it was actually working.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-28-2011, 01:23:39 PM
marc23760 marc23760 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Thanks for all the info.

I figured posting the Serial # someone would be able to pinpoint where it came from.


Smallen thanks for the history.

i will go for the oil test and post results....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:27:08 PM
DPeterik DPeterik is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
Posts: 74
Thanks: 9
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

Realized the selector was not in the air box on this unit after doing some more digging on this. Did not get a chance to post a update.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:38:41 PM
marc23760 marc23760 is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 15kw Carrier (Generac)

pulling the heads off this week.. i hope to get some answers that dont include lower end damage...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Need Generac 15kw/22.5kw Surge Wiring Help speedsport Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 3 04-22-2011 05:05:18 PM
Generac Diesel 15KW 89A02206-S RJay Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 24 12-17-2010 01:17:34 PM
Generac 15kw 4582.. Need new wiring harness Talley Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 6 01-06-2010 09:31:38 AM
Generac 15KW, 4cyl Nat gas to LPG Applejack Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 4 01-17-2008 10:49:20 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:18:46 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277