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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank


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  #1  
Old 09-25-2007, 09:13:09 PM
Larry Carlston Larry Carlston is offline
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Default Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

I just recently purchased my second engine..a Stover CT2. I know it's an extremely common engine, but it's a sweet running engine and starts much easier than my Econonmy does. That said, the Stover throws oil at both ends of the crank near the flywheels. I was told that the CT2's with their enclosed crankcase are notorious for this. Is this true? If not, is there a fix for it? I was told that there's felt "wipers" inside the crankcase on the crank itself, and I'm wondering if they've seen their better days. Also, is there a Stover manufacturing date list available? I would like to know when this engine was built.
Thanks in advance,
Larry
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:40:01 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2

Larry: Welcome to the world of Stovers. I have two CT2s, as well as a CT1 and a CT4. The oil problem may be as simple as too much oil in the crankcase, or it may be because of loose main bearings or a breather that is not working right. Hit and Miss, an advertiser on this site, has the felt and gasket sets for all sizes of the CT series. The first thing to check is the oil level. With the engine sitting on a level surface, oil should just barely drip out when the petcock is opened. No matter what, you will probably get some oil leakage at the point where the valve push rod comes out of the crankcase. I don't think any kind of seal was used there. Stover used a simple serial number system, staring with their earliest engines and numbering them without regard to size or model right up to the last engine in 1942. The list can be found in Wendel's Notebook or in Volume 3 of Power in the Past by Wendel. If those aren't available to you, I will look it up if you post the serial no. The number if found on the tag on the hopper, and is stamped into the block just above the head. Your number should start with TB, then the digits..
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:43:04 PM
Robert Haus Robert Haus is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2

Wendel's "Power in the Past vol 3" covers Stover engines and has a serial number list...throw your number out and I'll look it up for you (or someone else around here may beat me to it...either way, you'll get it)

As for the oil leaks...You may also check to see if the breather is clear.

...yes, the CT-2 is a common engine, but in my opinion, a pretty one too.

rh
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:36:35 PM
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Check your crankcase breather. The breather operates as a check valve. It should let pressure out easily, but not allow any air to be sucked in. This creates a momentary vacuum in the crankcase every time the piston is on an up stroke and tends to keep the oil "pulled in". Of course, all the gaskets and seals need to be in good shape also.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:47:10 PM
Redwing Redwing is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Stover's serial numbers & date - http://www.oldengine.org/members/die...cal/Stover.htm
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:50:47 PM
Don H. Don H. is offline
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Smile Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Something else to try. The gasket is felt, around the crank case. Mine would leak. I had new rings, I plasti-guaged the crank and rod bearings (waste of time) but nothing helped. The breather is working as well. It turns out, you need to apply heavy bearing grease on the felt geasket. Mine still leaked a bit near the crank and up front but I dabbed some heavy bearing grease on my finger and packed it into the leaking areas. It did the trick. The manual states that you should use grease on the felt to help it seal.
On the CT-2, it is a good idea to apply a few drops of oil to the crank bearings (externally). The bearing caps on mine have holes in them to drip oil into.
I don't know of an internal wiper for the crank.

The CT-2 was my first engine and was a fun project.

Hope that helps.

Don.
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Old 09-26-2007, 06:05:54 AM
Larry Carlston Larry Carlston is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Thanks for all the advice. I will post the serial number on here tonight after work. I do remember the owner showing me how to check the oil level and it was a steady stream out of the petcock versus a slow drip. I have a feeling the crankcase may be a bit too full. I'm also going to apply heavy grease around the areas that are leaking. My final plan is to order a new gasket kit from H&M is none of the above work.
Buying this engine was 180 degrees from what I was looking for. I was looking for another "affordable" open crank engine with spoked flywheels. I was at a local show and an older gentleman told me that he had a CT2 for sale. I told him that I would come and look at it, but I felt that I wasn't really interested in it. To fast forward. I went and looked at it and was "kinda" interested after I saw the engine and heard what all he has done to it. He started it and it just purred along...
I guess it's like the stray cat that follows you home...
Again, thanks to all for your suggestions.
Larry
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Old 09-26-2007, 09:05:44 PM
Larry Carlston Larry Carlston is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Well, I got to spend some time tonight in the garage and found the serial number. It is TB249917. I also have two new questions. First off, which way should the retard lever be for starting? Secondly, it appears that the fill pipe on top of the crank cover has no type of valving in it to maintain a vacuum. All that's there is a piece of pipe with a cap. The cap has a 1/4" hole drilled in it and not valved. Is/was there a valve for this fill pipe? Does Hit and Miss carry this valve? I think having the correct cap for the filler pipe will help eliminate some of the oil leakage.
Thanks,
Larry
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:45:04 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Your engine was built in 1937. The correct breather is a piece with two wings to screw it in and out, and has a cap with a 1/4" screw through it. Inside is a light spring holding down a metal disk with a leather washer riveted to it. The disk seats on a shoulder inside the breather to allow pressure out, but seals to create a vacuum in the crankcase when the piston goes forward in the cylinder. Hit and Miss doesn't list a breather, but give Ed a call. I got a used one from him last week. All sizes of the CT engines use the same breather. On your WICO EK magneto, the lever is supposed to be up for starting and down for running. If you need to adjust the timing, the mark on the flywheel is for the running (advanced) timing, so move the lever down and move the trip on the push rod to have the mag trip when the mark is even with the top of the push rod.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:05:11 AM
Larry Carlston Larry Carlston is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Thank you, Tom. I will give Ed a call this morning. Hopefully he has another breather. I'm really impressed as to how welll this engine runs. It starts on the first pull of the flywheel and runs nice and slow.
Larry
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:47:26 PM
Matthew Arold
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

I had a CT 3 and got rid of it cause it was a dirty girl and I could never get it to stop flinging oil at the spectators.
As far as the dating goes If I am correct which I have been known not to be, stover put the manufacturing month day and year on the lower casting behind the exhaust side flywheel. At least thats what they did with the KA's and I am pretty sure it was there on my CT.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:40:07 PM
Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Hopefully, Don H. from San Diego will read this......

Don had mentioned that it was a good idea to give the main bearings a shot of oil EXTERNALLY and that his bearing caps have holes in them for doing just that. Well Don, does your engine actually have HOLES in the main caps, or is there a small slot on one end of each of the caps? If you are referring to the slots, I believe that your main caps have been installed incorrectly. If memory serves me correctly, the slots should face toward the rod throw on the crankshaft. As the oil would splash around in the crankcase, some of the oil was then able to get into the slots and lube the main bearings. It's been YEARS since I've owned a CT engine, but I seem to remember the slots on the caps being covered by the crankcase cover and the slots being positioned toward the crank throw. Maybe I'm all wet on this and possibly suffering from a case of CRS, but it just seems to me that is how my CT engines that I had years ago were set up. Again, it has been a LONG time since I've owned a CT engine, so I could be dead wrong.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:48:49 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Ironman, you are correct. I had the crankcase cover off of one yesterday, and the notches were to the inside with a piece of felt in them to hold the oil.
The oil is slung around in the engine by the cam gear which is running partly in oil.

Last edited by Tom Martin; 09-27-2007 at 08:49:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:23:04 AM
Don H. Don H. is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Ironman,

Thanks for the heads up on that. The CT was my first engine and I had no idea how it was supposed to go together. I'll have to look into that and change it.
Thanks again..

Don.


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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Hopefully, Don H. from San Diego will read this......

Don had mentioned that it was a good idea to give the main bearings a shot of oil EXTERNALLY and that his bearing caps have holes in them for doing just that. Well Don, does your engine actually have HOLES in the main caps, or is there a small slot on one end of each of the caps? If you are referring to the slots, I believe that your main caps have been installed incorrectly. If memory serves me correctly, the slots should face toward the rod throw on the crankshaft. As the oil would splash around in the crankcase, some of the oil was then able to get into the slots and lube the main bearings. It's been YEARS since I've owned a CT engine, but I seem to remember the slots on the caps being covered by the crankcase cover and the slots being positioned toward the crank throw. Maybe I'm all wet on this and possibly suffering from a case of CRS, but it just seems to me that is how my CT engines that I had years ago were set up. Again, it has been a LONG time since I've owned a CT engine, so I could be dead wrong.
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:27:14 AM
Don H. Don H. is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Ironman,

Thanks for the heads up on that. The CT was my first engine and I had no idea how it was supposed to go together. I'll have to look into that and change it. It was like that when I took it apart. I even match marked it before I took it apart to make sure I put it back together correctly.
Thanks again..

Don.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Hopefully, Don H. from San Diego will read this......

Don had mentioned that it was a good idea to give the main bearings a shot of oil EXTERNALLY and that his bearing caps have holes in them for doing just that. Well Don, does your engine actually have HOLES in the main caps, or is there a small slot on one end of each of the caps? If you are referring to the slots, I believe that your main caps have been installed incorrectly. If memory serves me correctly, the slots should face toward the rod throw on the crankshaft. As the oil would splash around in the crankcase, some of the oil was then able to get into the slots and lube the main bearings. It's been YEARS since I've owned a CT engine, but I seem to remember the slots on the caps being covered by the crankcase cover and the slots being positioned toward the crank throw. Maybe I'm all wet on this and possibly suffering from a case of CRS, but it just seems to me that is how my CT engines that I had years ago were set up. Again, it has been a LONG time since I've owned a CT engine, so I could be dead wrong.
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:10:36 AM
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

we had 2 ct engines could not get them to stop slinging oil. called them the slimy sisters. had fun with them, but sold them and went on to something else. Bob
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:57:09 AM
Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT2 throws oil at both ends of crank

Don H.-

Happy to be of help with the main caps. Another thing to look into when you turn the main caps around is to be sure that the bearings get turned around too. I think there might be a hole in the top main bearing that should be positioned under the slot in the bearing cap, and grooves or just a single groove in the bearing to let oil flow across the bearing so that the full width of the bearing gets lubricated. Again, it has been going on 20 years since I've had a CT engine, so I'm not positive about the hole in the bearing. It just stands to reason that if the slot is in the cap, then there should be a way for the oil to get from the slot to the crankshaft.

The CT engines are darn good engines, and I'm happy to see that they are finally becoming a bit more popular with collectors. I must admit, however, that I am a bit biased toward Stover engines as they are one of my very favorite brands of engines. As mentioned before, if the oil level is correct and if the breather is working properly, it keeps the "oil slobbering" down to a minimum. It is also a good idea to remove the breather from the engine at the beginning of each show season and give it a good cleaning inside. Sometimes there gets to be a gooey sludge formed inside them due to condensation, and it can keep the breather from working properly. If you have ever removed the oil filler cap or PCV valve from your car engine and found some gooey sludge on them, it's just like the sludge that forms in the breather on the CT engines while they're sitting idle during the "off season".
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