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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Generator Parts and Frequently Asked Guestions


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  #1  
Old 03-20-2010, 05:36:37 PM
Chainsawman1 Chainsawman1 is offline
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Default Generator Parts and Frequently Asked Guestions

I was just thinking about the last post and I think that this should be added to frequently asked questions list.
(WHAT YOU DO NOT DO AT ALL.) Becouse people could get killed or hurt.
All the smart guys know this but some do not.
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:01:53 PM
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Talking Re: Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

Great, Write Something Up, and eMail it to "Me" and I'll see if we can make it a Sticky at the Top of a Forum Page, with the appropriate Title, or If ANYONE else would like to write something up, I will consider it for a Sticky....
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:10:51 PM
Chainsawman1 Chainsawman1 is offline
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Default Re: Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

Good Idea I will.
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:19:25 PM
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Default Re: Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

The thing is there is a lot of stuff people do and get away with all the time, like test running a generator that is not grounded. If this is going to be limited to transfer switches it opens up a whole can of worms with the NEC and separately derived sources, grounding regulation, etc. All of which is so confusing that the electrical inspectors rarely have a grip on it, leaving the standard advice as call your local inspector and do it the way he wants. If that is not bad enough you then get into sub-panel transfer switches, whole house switches, safety interlink kits, and then some of these oddball meter base switches, etc. I guess what I am getting at is it is much easier to say USE A TRANSFER SWITCH than actually doing it.

Ike

Last edited by Isaac-1; 03-21-2010 at 01:18:43 AM.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:16:58 PM
Chainsawman1 Chainsawman1 is offline
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Default Re: Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

True but to backfeed from a 120 line to the main is as you know (Is bad)
If you dont have ie the meter out or lock the main breaker in off or something.
I sent out some eMails to some of the smart guys from here to see what thay think....But for someone to get well you know...(DEAD) Is not good.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:43:44 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

to make the whole bonding issue simple.........
correct bonding makes it impossible for a point of failure in the return path to create a hazardous condition.

for 120/240 single phase house setup

a 3 wire 120/240 back feed is the WORST possible choice

SECOND WORST two 120v grounded cords back-feeding doubles the neutral and ground.

half the risk but still a major risk. both illegal

a separate neutral and ground [four wire connection] along with proper bonding is the lowest risk.

when installing a transfer device your main panel is no longer the first disconnect and [like all sub panels] must be converted to an isolated neutral.

a two wire transfer will not do if the generator power must be bonded at the generator.

transfer of the neutral may be necessary to maintain correct bonding.

a licensed electrician experienced in generator instillation is a must.
the cheapest life insurance you will ever buy!

where back-up power is required automatic transfer is required.

not required but nice to have back-up power ....

a permanently installed back-up generator requires a transfer device.

a portable generator requires a means to prevent inadvertent connection of the generator and mains.

[these are sorta "big picture" explanations]
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:46:55 AM
Chainsawman1 Chainsawman1 is offline
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Default Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

BTpost...Mod.
I like armandh's sticky and think it should go up top and have a good heading.
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:50:22 PM
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Talking Proposed new Sticky FAQ: Comments requsted from Resident SmartGuys

To all our Resident SmartGuys:

It has been proposed that we add a Sticky FAQ to the Main Motor & Generator Forum that deals with "Connection of Home Backup Generators to Homes and Home based Operations".

We believe that this should cover at a minimum
1. How NOT to do this, and why....
2. A few examples of How to Do this, and why....
3. A simple, and understandable primer on Neutral/Ground Bonding
4. A simple Statement, that one should consult with their local Inspection
Authority, BEFORE deciding on any one method or implementation.

I think that if we can get something understandable and informative, it would be a Very Good Thing to have. So, if we can all do some thinking about this, and come to a reasonable consensus I will get the results, Posted.

As appropriate Comments or Discussions are made in the above thread I will Bring them over to this Sticky FAQ

Bruce in alaska Asst: Chief Moderator SmokeStak.com
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:53:48 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

Armandh, I think you have a lot of good information there, but I think something needs to be added in explaining why people should not backfeed. Just saying could kill a lineman is not as good as explaining that transformers are bidirectional and that little 120/240V department store generator would have its output voltage bumped up to 13,800V ? for whatever fraction of a second it took to zap a lineman miles away. Also in the last couple of years between dealing with generator stuff at work, and a residential install for my mother's house I have talked with probably a dozen electricians about generator/transfer switch installations around here, out of them about half had little experience in the matter, the other half had installed many generators. The thing that worried me is not a single one of these experienced installers (including one that that is the local dealer for one of the big name brands) had a good grasp on the grounding/bonding requirements. The one I ended up going with for my mother's house (and had to wait 6 months for a break in his schedule to do this "little job") insists that the correct way to install is with solid neutrals and the frame bonded and grounded at the generator.


Ike

p.s. note I live in an area that just recently adopted the NEC and does not yet have inspectors in rural areas
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:13:57 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is online now
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Default Re: Generator parts and frequently asked questions.

Unfortunately, not every electrician/inspector is going to interpret the NEC in the same way, nor is there a 100% chance that (even if he/she can quote the NEC word for word) the install will be compliant. There are many linemen/electricians and inspectors that will look at the requirement for neutral/ground isolation and transfer of the neutral conductor, make an odd face then say something along the lines of "why the #$%^ would you want to do that? That is the stupidest $%^& thing in the world..."

I ran into this years ago when I did my install, and still hear it today.
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