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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice


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  #1  
Old 10-05-2019, 11:48:27 AM
Turbo-Duck Turbo-Duck is offline
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Default Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Hi all, I recently acquired an old Winco Generator, it's a 25kw unit powered by a 4-cylinder White engine. I have it running, and it's outputting power but I'm a bit confused as to the best way to wire it. It has (8) leads coming out of the generator itself, but only (4) are currently connected, (2) are connected to one wire, the other (2) are connected to the other wire coming to the outside of the unit. The other (4) are connected together and stop there. (I need to replace the Rheostat as it's acting flaky, but I can get it to hold steady @ 250 volts and measured 125 VAC on each of the leads coming out of the unit, labeled G1 and G3 in the picture.)

This unit is rated @ 130 Amps, but the leads coming out look to be 12 Gauge wire. I'm trying to figure out the best way to wire this thing to be able to utilize the most amps. I did contact Winco, but they have very little documentation on this unit. Web searching by the model # didn't get me much more than this site, so I figured I'd start here and ask some experts. I hope all of that made sense, I'm trying to attach a picture of the connections.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:24:28 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Okay, so you got a dandy machine there... at 25kw, if you're powering your house, you won't need more power than that to get through an outage...

So... Winco is still in business, I'm pretty certain they can get you connection diagram and tech docs on that unit:

https://www.wincogen.com/service/

plug in the accordant info, and they'll respond.

The plate identifies single-phase, it may actually be a three-phase unit wired in Double-Delta configuration, or it may be wound as three sets of dual-pole that're all in-phase. In doing so, they probably have that same chassis designed so that it can either be a three or single-phase unit, depending on how they did the internal connections on the coils.

As for it being 12ga wire and 130A rating... if you've got 12 wires coming out, and that means 6 windings inside, that's 6 conductors of 12awg... at 20A per wire, that's 120A. With this being a machine (rather than household wiring) application, it uses MTW (Machine Tool Wire) type, where temperature ratings will go higher, and hence, it'll be current capable of up into the 35A range without major issue.

Your wiring will consist if multiple 12awg wires landed to a terminal, where your larger THHN type wire (to your transfer switch) will connect. Most likely, you'll be running about #2 size, depending on your run distance. Copper will run cooler, so you can run smaller than aluminum... and of course, if it's in conduit (rather than free air, like an overhead wire) you'll need to run in a higher temperature class... but that's outside the machine, not INSIDE it.

Btw... the 4 cyl White... please post pictures of it... is it a Hercules? Hercules was purchased by Hupp in '61, and Hupp was purchased by White, which then changed the Hercules name to White Engine... I wouldn't be surprised if yours was a Hercules with a WHITE badge on it.
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Old 10-05-2019, 04:01:19 PM
Turbo-Duck Turbo-Duck is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Thanks for the reply / info. I'm trying to digest it with my limited generator knowledge. After looking a little closer, there are (14) wires coming out of the generator itself. (4) of them are connected to ground, (2) go to a voltage regulator (2) each go to the outside wires, and the remaining (4) are connected together. I'm guessing I can connect the four that are connected together to the outside wires for more amperage?

I did contact Winco and he sent what little documentation he had, but even though I can read schematics, it wasn't clear to me how to wire this thing.

Pics of the engine and a better picture of the wiring. The last picture is what it looks like now as I'm turning it into a portable unit.
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Old 10-05-2019, 04:10:04 PM
Turbo-Duck Turbo-Duck is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Here is the documentation I received from Winco Support.
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File Type: pdf PS25 HS-4R-ANG WIRING DIAG. (1).pdf (1.21 MB, 29 views)
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:37:01 PM
AlanR AlanR is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo-Duck View Post
Thanks for the reply / info. I'm trying to digest it with my limited generator knowledge. After looking a little closer, there are (14) wires coming out of the generator itself. (4) of them are connected to ground, (2) go to a voltage regulator (2) each go to the outside wires, and the remaining (4) are connected together. I'm guessing I can connect the four that are connected together to the outside wires for more amperage?

I did contact Winco and he sent what little documentation he had, but even though I can read schematics, it wasn't clear to me how to wire this thing.

Pics of the engine and a better picture of the wiring. The last picture is what it looks like now as I'm turning it into a portable unit.
There appear to be tags on the wiring - can you please tell us what the wire tags say for each of your connections on the 12 main leads? From the documents winco sent you, about the third page, they have a diagram for a 12-lead single phase 120/240 connection, which is a double delta arrangement - looks like two triangles side-by-side. Going by that diagram, you should have two leads hooked to L1, two leads hooked to L2, 4 leads hooked to L0/Neutral/Ground, and 2 instances of a pair of leads hooked together and insulated from/not connected to anything else (the 'peaks' of the two triangles), which sounds REALLY close to your description above. It APPEARS that you are already connected for full 120/240 output.

Alan
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:12:16 PM
AlanR AlanR is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

actually, on further research, it appears you may be connected parallel low zigzg - see page 2 at https://www.marathongenerators.com/g...20Diagrams.pdf and, again, let us know what the tags on the wires say.

Alan
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:52:17 PM
Turbo-Duck Turbo-Duck is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Here are how the wires coming out of the Generator are connected now.

(8,2,12,6) Tied together and go nowhere

(4, 5, 11, 10) Tied to Ground / Frame of unit

(7, 1) Tied to one lead going out - Marked G1

(9, 3) Tied to other lead going out - Marked G3

The other (2) leads are marked F+, and F- and are connected to the Voltage Regulator.

Thanks, Gary.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:14:20 PM
AlanR AlanR is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Ok, you're connected parallel low zigzag for 120/240 single phase output rather than the double delta the documents showed. In practice, either one is going to give you the same output, and since the nameplate gives you single phase ratings, you can go by that information picking breaker and wire sizes.

Alan
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:22:13 PM
Turbo-Duck Turbo-Duck is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Thank you guys very much for the information. I was concerned because the original wiring coming out looks to be a 12ga wire. (See pics) I'm not sure what the previous owner was using this for, but it couldn't have been much of a load.

I'm thinking I'll need to upgrade that wire to a #4 copper to handle the load properly.

I'm making this into a portable and adding a roof so it can live outside. I did get the corner posts on and the roof structure on today.

Thanks again,
Gary.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:28:44 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Hi Gary!

The F leads are to the generator field, they're powered BY the regulator... more field current = higher output voltage, and vise-versa.

When you make your housing, make sure you seal all the holes and fill in the screens with fine mesh... hardware cloth of 1/4" or less, as anything else will allow mice to get in, while keeping their natural predators out, thus, making your generator a wonderful place for them to come in, and chew insulation to their heart's content...
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:33:52 AM
Turbo-Duck Turbo-Duck is offline
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Default Re: Winco Generator 25HS-3R - Need Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkamp View Post
Hi Gary!

The F leads are to the generator field, they're powered BY the regulator... more field current = higher output voltage, and vise-versa.

When you make your housing, make sure you seal all the holes and fill in the screens with fine mesh... hardware cloth of 1/4" or less, as anything else will allow mice to get in, while keeping their natural predators out, thus, making your generator a wonderful place for them to come in, and chew insulation to their heart's content...
Thanks for your information.

You are correct in that the engine is a Hercules / White G1600, and appears that they were built near me in Canton, Ohio.

I'm not planning to enclose the complete unit, just put a roof on it. Amazingly this unit sat outside (tarped) near a woods for at least 10 years, and the only "nest" I found was in the control box. But I will make sure it's sealed off from future habitat.

Thanks again, Gary.
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