Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors Discussion on old marine engines, naptha, gas, oil or steam and vintage outboard motors.

Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors

Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???


this thread has 14 replies and has been viewed 4532 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-05-2007, 05:26:24 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

I apologise for duplicate postings on this, but have better info now:
American Engine Co. seems to've been part of a "family" of similar or very similar engines built under patents owned/controlled by Benj Middleditch, built by different engine companies owned/controlled by F E Wadsworth and Hugo Scherer/Sherer or acquired by them etroit Engine Works, Columbia Engine Co, Caille Perfection, Detroit Boat Co. and various others, as set out in the archives here and on other old engine sites. Both Wadsworth and Scherer were boaters who ran their own boats.
But so far all I've found are tantalising references to American Engine Co; nothing like the history or tech info available for Detroit, Caille, Termaat & Monahen, etc..
Bill Brox (up around Tromso, Norway) will be checking in oldmarineengines.com re' an American engine up there; does anyone here know if these engines are similar enough to swap parts??? If anyone would like to email Bill directly, I have his email, and I'm sure he'd enjoy and appreciate any comments.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-05-2007, 05:47:46 PM
JKWidener's Avatar
JKWidener JKWidener is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, Indiana USA
Posts: 3,522
Thanks: 1,477
Thanked 2,387 Times in 783 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

You might have this already, it is out of an antique online book about old medicine. Hope this helps... The building they are talking about is in BUFFALO, N.Y. .I know this isnt a marine engine but could this have been where the American Engine Company started? In large steam engines?


The structure, located at 660 to 670 Washington Street, immediately in the rear of the Invalids' Hotel and Surgical Institute, is of brick, with sandstone trimmings, six stories high, and 100 feet square. Its most striking architectural features exteriorly are massiveness, combined with grace and beauty of outline, and great strength.
THE BASEMENT.

The basement or first story opens on a level with the Washington Street sidewalk, and is occupied by a plant of two large boilers, which supply the steam to run a huge American engine, of 100 horse-power, [pg 938]built by the American Engine Co., Bound Brook, N.J. It drives all the machinery of the establishment, including drug mills, pill machines, packing machinery, a large number of printing presses, folding machines, stitching, trimming, and many other machines, located on the different floors, and used in the manufacture of medicines, books, pamphlets, circulars, posters, and other printed matter. On this floor is located steam bottle-washing machinery, and also the shipping department. Here may be seen huge piles of medicine, boxed, marked, and ready for shipment to all parts of the civilized world. A large steam freight elevator leads from this to the floors above.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-05-2007, 11:08:42 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

JKW: Unfortunately, I don't think so; I did run across that company, and I should've mentioned it in my post. It apparently built larger steam engines, per one site often called American Ball engines; it had a General Manager listed as F H Ball, apparently the designer of some or all models, and seemed to have a later address in Jersey City, NJ. Nothing I found seemed to connect the two, and I have no idea what-all my American may have built (if anything) other than gasoline marine engines. (Frankly, I''m surprised I didn't turn up a dozen "American Engine" Companies!) The engine in Norway is described as looking sufficient to run an 18' or so boat. Many thxx for effort!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-06-2007, 09:49:29 AM
Lyle Fall's Avatar
Lyle Fall Lyle Fall is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 28
Thanks: 12
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Hello I have a Petoskey Marine engine about 3 HP. It was built by the Petoskey Iron Works It looks like a Detroit. I have done a little looking in to it and the Propr. of the iron works is a man named Philip Middleditch that also is the name that is on the tag of my engine. from what I can tell by looking a some old city directory's is that he was there from 1906 to 1910 . Then he left a small article in the paper had said he went to southern Mi.
There is not a lot on the iron works they were an agent for Alamo Gas engines, but from what I can find out they built the Marine engies.I have a picture of the Petoskey Boat Works , about the right time frame and you can just make out an engine in the picture. don't know if this helps Lyle
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-2007, 02:40:48 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Lyle: You seem to have another piece of the Detroit Engine Works/Middleditch puzzle, but I simply don't know enough to know where it fits...
The Middleditch that built the Middleditch engine was supposedly Benjamin Middleditch, and my limited digging didn't find any Philip or any mention of a Petosky engine, but marine engines are outside my experience, and I'm way in over my head here...
John Davis has an excellent history of Detroit on his website(he's made many posts here on Detroit etc questions) and I owe him an apology: I scanned his site for American, forgot his note that a number of these companies were merged into Standard Motor Parts Co., and then quoted another site which I understood to say that various engine co's were merged into Bessemer, when John states only Middleditch Engine was sold to Bessemer. Whether the basic structure of these engines iis similar enough to swap parts I don't know, but I'm sure John may.
The next thing I need to do is contact John (which I should've done first) both to apologise and to see if his considerable research turned up anything on American. Many thxx for the post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2007, 12:21:00 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Lyle: Wouldn't you just know it???...a quick Google on Petoskey only brought up one site that looked like it had some Petoskey history--walloonlakeflywheelers--and it won't come up at all. Maybe someone here knows of the club; the only other source of info I could suggest, besides any other owners you can find, would be the Petoskey Historical Association (assuming you didn't check with them when you went thru the old City Directories). Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-07-2007, 04:40:09 PM
Lyle Fall's Avatar
Lyle Fall Lyle Fall is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 28
Thanks: 12
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Bud I be long to the club one of the reasons for the engine was that is where a lot of my families from I try to take it there every year
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-08-2007, 01:41:54 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Lyle: Small world!!! I'll be scrounging around more, off and on; if I turn up anything about your engine or Philip/Phillip I'll pass it on. I assume Benjamin and Philip were related somehow; Middleditch isn't really a common name, unless it's more common there. (I found where Benjamin and his wife came back from a trip across the Atlantic in 1914, but no Philip/Phillip was listed). Take care. Bud
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2007, 10:26:09 AM
John Davis's Avatar
John Davis John Davis is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saint Cloud, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,437
Thanks: 395
Thanked 1,174 Times in 343 Posts
Photo Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Bud,

I'n my search for info for Detroit Engine Co. an related companies I have not come across much info for American Engine Company. Hower ever I do have a flyer from American Engine Co. that was part of a advertisement package from Detroit Boat Co. and Detroit Engine works that I will post for you when I get home this after noon. A person that might have some info on American Engine Co. would be Scott M. Peters he is the collections Historian at the Michigan Historical Museum. He goes on the oldmarineengines.com site from time to time.

I have no proof that American Engine co. was owned or operated by the Wadsworth Manufacturing Co. although it could be possible. If you have found some original literature that proves this I would very much like to see it.

I wished I could find more info on Ben Middleditch and his designs and patents he was envolved with. I have researched all patents for Ben Middleditch between the years of 1879 through 1910 and found only one patent in his name and it was for some kind of lathe attachment. So if he designed and built as many engines, etc as people say he did for some odd reason he did not get them patented in his name. Middleditch came to Michigan in 1880 and died in 1916.

I do believe that the Wadsworth factory (Detroit Engine Works) may have been making castings for other companies.

If I come across any more info on American Engine Co. I will let you know. Please do the same for me for Detroit engine Works or related companies.

Thank you...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DBC_AEC_Advert_01A.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	21114   Click image for larger version

Name:	DBC_AEC_Advert_02A.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	66.1 KB
ID:	21115  

Last edited by John Davis; 07-18-2007 at 07:03:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-18-2007, 02:57:54 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

John: Many thxx for taking the time to dig and reply. There is an ad for American Engine Co on the web somewhere (looked thru what I could decipher of my scribbled notes, but of course couldn't find any ref to it!) As I recall was man standing in rear of fairly small open boat (guesstimate 10-15 feet with 5 ft man?) and adds given was in Detroit but wasn't on Jefferson Ave. Like you, I only found peripheral mentions that American was thought to be part of the "family" because of similarities of models.
I assume you've long since found the Wadsworth thumbnail on coachbuilt.com re' their auto body etc operations; if I can locate that posted ad will advise, and will, of course, be happy to send along anything I find that isn't already on your site. Again, many thxx!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-18-2007, 07:16:18 PM
John Davis's Avatar
John Davis John Davis is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saint Cloud, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,437
Thanks: 395
Thanked 1,174 Times in 343 Posts
Photo Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Bud,

I posted the flyer above and here are a couple of adverts I got from the guys on oldmarineengines.com
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	American_Engine_Co_07.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	40.4 KB
ID:	21117   Click image for larger version

Name:	American_Engine_Co_Advert_01A.JPG
Views:	167
Size:	149.6 KB
ID:	21118  
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:08:38 PM
Richard Durgee Richard Durgee is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 172
Thanks: 6
Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

*

1912 Ad
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	American 1a.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	69.9 KB
ID:	21152   Click image for larger version

Name:	American 2 tag.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	30.8 KB
ID:	21153  
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-20-2007, 01:16:20 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,244 Times in 970 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

John: Made a stab at finding that ad I thought was for an American (man standing in back of small open boat) but no luck; now I'm not really it was for an American-after awhile they all begin to look alike (to me, that is). Many thxx for the postings.
Richard: Read many of your interesting posts on oldmarineengines; many thxx for your contribution(s).
I'm not into marine engines, and I wouldn't know one if it fell on my foot; I was doing some digging for a man who has a friend that has a broken American 1cyl up around Tromso, Norway somewhere (he said 69 degrees north) and was looking for info, presumably to try to resurrect it or sell it for parts.
Interesting that the flyer doesn't have a street address (I assume it's a dock/waterfront area) and that each of the other ads has a different street number on Boston St.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:45:32 PM
John Davis's Avatar
John Davis John Davis is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saint Cloud, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,437
Thanks: 395
Thanked 1,174 Times in 343 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Lyle,

Could you e-mail me some photos of your engine and the tag? The larger the photos the better. I am very much interested in seeing it. It would help with my research for Detroit engine Works and related engines very much.

Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-13-2007, 07:16:17 PM
Lyle Fall's Avatar
Lyle Fall Lyle Fall is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 28
Thanks: 12
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Detroit, Caille, Middleditch, American 1900's???

Hi John will try to get some around for you mat take a few days Lyle
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Detroit Liberty Caille & another small Marine engine? Jim Martin Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors 5 02-22-2011 12:59:27 PM
Need Help Re' American Engine Co., Detroit MI 1895 Bud Tierney Antique Marine Engines and Outboard Motors 0 07-03-2007 04:04:12 PM
Vertical Middleditch & Bessemer two cycle Patent John Davis Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 3 12-21-2006 07:37:46 PM
Middleditch Engine Co. John Davis Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 4 12-12-2006 11:57:36 PM
Caille Perfection Foos Jr Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 9 02-04-2006 04:37:32 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:56:23 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277