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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft


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  #1  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:40:03 AM
LeRoy IHC LeRoy IHC is offline
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Default Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Hi Guys

I thought I'd post some pictures of the pattern we just finished for a Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft. To give an idea of how big this crankshaft is, I'm 5' 10" tall.

I'm getting ready to ship the pattern to the foundry in Minnesota where it will be poured from 4140 steel and the casting will then be shipped to Maggert Brothers Machine in Iowa. They will machine it and fit it to the new crankcase they are building for the 30-60 Mogul Tractor.

I have also attached 2 pictures of 1 of the new frame rails for the 30-60. The frame rails are made 8" Channel.

For my contact information look for LeRoy Machine on the sponsors page.

Enjoy the pictures

LeRoy
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:34:27 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Nice work, was the original crank forged? What went wrong with it the original? Were the frame rails bent in a bender for channel iron or was it a custom job?
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:42:40 PM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Sounds like the old 30-60 is quite a project-any before pics so we can see what the owner had to start off with?

Mike M
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:39:50 PM
LeRoy IHC LeRoy IHC is offline
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Hi Guys

To answer some of the questions. The channels were formed
partially in a set of rolls for doing channel and finished very carefully in large brake press.

The orginal crankshaft would have been dropped forged, but with the quality controls we now have on metal when it's poured, this crankshaft should be every bit as good or better than the orginal. Most cars produced today have cast crankshafts. You have to really get into high end cars to get a forged crank any more.

I can't say much about the tractor, because to be real honest I'm not sure how much is left. I know my customer has been looking and gathering up parts for a long time.

As different projects are completed I'll post pictures of the work produced in my shop, but there are other shops working on this project also.

Thanks for the interest.

LeRoy
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:48:15 PM
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Eric Best Eric Best is offline
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

I believe this is the target tractor for the crankshaft.
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:18:50 PM
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

A question was asked about a "before" picture and how much of the tractor the owner had to start with. As Leroy said it was a long time spent by the owner at the time accumulating parts. Here is the "before" picture as it arrived at my house, January of 2016. It all fit on one trailer but no two pieces were assembled! At some point, I will start a new thread that chronicles what I hope will be about a five year restoration and post pictures of my progress.
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Last edited by Eric Best; 06-08-2016 at 10:35:47 PM.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:25:40 AM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

I hope you allowed for shrinkage on that crank as its long it will move quite a bit.

I had made a crank for a 20 hp type D titan but i went the billet route...

With proper heat treat that will make a nice crank.


Crank was damaged on the flywheel mounting surface and in keyways due to cracked flywheel hubs fretting back and forth.
Crank was cracked as well.

The bearings i made steel backed white metal ones as the originals which where white metal only closed in due to pounding from crank and being way loose bearing clearance wise. With the steel they should not move and hold tight.

Some i have seen are bronze but that tractor had full white metal with the IHC part no in them so i think that was original equipment like that.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:57:18 AM
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Original mains for a 30-60 are a cast iron "grid" with white metal lining. We will likely do solid bronze.

Alastair- what was your billet cut from? 4140, 1045, ? I have thought about the billet route in case something doesn't work out with the cast shaft but I don't think that will be necessary. The shaft is now machined but for the keyways, I believe, so whatever shrinkage allowances were in the pattern were apparently sufficient.

Last edited by Eric Best; 06-09-2016 at 08:34:54 AM.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:24:16 PM
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Another view.
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:09:15 PM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Mogul 30-60 Crankshaft

Its been quite a while since that crank was made, i had it made by a shop it was oxy cut from plate, plate designations are different to round designations like your using.
Some allowance was made for heat effected zone due to cutting.

If i recall correctly is was the equivalent of 1045 they are not super hard cranks the originals are soft cranks. It was not heat treated like your going to do.
4140 is a good grade better than original material and by the time you do heat treat and final machining you will have spent quite a sum i would imagine.
One week was allowed for machining the crank and it was all turning was done in a lathe with keyways done in a mill obviously.
The shop regularly makes press cranks for stamping presses out of the same material.

With the bearings white metal is much better material than bronze due to the bearing will run cooler, wears the crank less and is better at accepting minor foreign ingress it just embeds and doesn't usually score items and very minor misalignment.
Use a leaded bronze if you go that route, not a aluminium bronze.
Bronze will wear the crank more and has a higher risk of seizure as it will not accept foreign ingress to the bearing.

Be careful with bronze as it expands when heated the cast housing will not let it move so may grow onto the crank and close bearing clearances.

With the white metal i used 0.005" 0.0055" the reason for the difference is a machining error they are absolute measurements.
obviously. I would not go any less than that for a really non pressure fed bearing of that size, just using hydrodynamic oil film.

I made a sacrificial steel shell mould which became the support backing once machined, there is quite a deal of white metal thickness, bore and od, width are finish machined the inside flanges are wider to allow final fitment of end float ( some material must be removed) .
On the famous engine i think the end float is set by one flywheel to one bearing not in between the bearing supports, this would allow some growth in the crank.
This is just my thinking viewing it and is what a modern engine does however they could have used in between the bearings. Still can be done either way.
May require very minor scraping depends on how it fits and blues up.
If you set the bearing end float between the cranks you have to be careful that the flywheel does not become the first stop and give you less float.

Its a little late for comparing grade but i could chase up exact plate grade designation if required i could go see the fellow.

Tractor is now with another restorer, just showing bits done when i had it.

---------- Post added at 12:09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39:58 AM ----------

if you would like my shell shop drawing pm you email its too large a pdf to post here.
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