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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Lister Petter LPW4 with Newage SX460 controlled alternator - earthing methods for UK


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  #1  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:02:35 AM
Heskencren Heskencren is offline
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Default Lister Petter LPW4 with Newage SX460 controlled alternator - earthing methods for UK

Hi.
I am off grid, UK.

I have a LPW4/Newage that I want to use to power my mig welder (UK domestic 13A plug). The 4 options on the sticker inside the lid of the connections/control box on top of the alternator are series star 3ph 4w, parallel star 3ph 4w, series delta 3ph 4w and parallel zig-zag 1ph 3w. Mine is none of these and is connected as follows.



Luckily the ends of the wires from the windings have ID ferrules on the crimped terminals. It looks like it's 1ph 240v double delta.



Q1. Is any one able to confirm that connection arrangement because it differs to another I have seen on this forum? (https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attac...2&d=1481591623) (although possibly due to difference between US and UK output voltage required)


Just worried why that's not included on their list - is it extra dangerous?

I need to check the earthing/safety. I have taken the liberty of cleaning up and re-making some earth connections that were a bit rusty/corroded. I started looking into this a while back and got bogged down with centre-tapped explanations and all that sort of stuff and half of it was probably foreign spec stuff and generally ambiguous. I have followed the earth wires through and note that there is a common earth bonding incorporating all of the following:

Socket Neutral
Socket Earth
Wire U6!
Brass earth/ground spike
Trailer chassis
Alternator case
Controller circuit board backplate*
12V negative/earth **
And possibly the start key/aluminium housing (and therefore me!!)

* This is on rubber anti vibration mounts so isolated but there's a link cable across to the main casing.
** By default as engine bolted to both the 230V and 12V alternators. The generator 12V start system is NOT part of the 12V domestic system.

Q2. Is this a regular generator earth circuit as designed?
Q3. Is this normal practice to have me thus connected to the circuitry at U6?
Q4. What is the best protection for both generator operator and welder operator?

There is no inbuilt RCD or other user-protective system. I have heard reports of RCDs being ineffective in some generator configurations. I looked into it but got confused. This is important if the metal I'm holding with one gauntlet while welding with the other is linked via the weld earth clamp or ultimately the nozzle tip during operation. It is more important if I'm lying on a potentially damp workshop floor when welding although this activity can be avoided if deemed to be too foolish. I have been known to weld outside in the snow in an emergency!

Q5. Do in-line RCDs (ie the ones you just plug in the 3-pin socket and piggy-back your appliance onto like when using the electric lawn mower) work with the LPW4 generator thus configured?

If it is relevant then the controller is connected 7/8 thus
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attac...1&d=1529062838

Thank You
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:30:10 AM
Heskencren Heskencren is offline
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Default Lister Petter LPW4 with Newage SX460 controlled alternator - rpm/ 2 or 4 pole?

Hi
[230V UK voltage]
The governor setting quadrant on my LPW4/Newage has been tampered with and so I don't know if I have a low speed or high speed machine. There are no labels or plates to declare build. I suppose I could fire up to 1500 with my RPM meter and then check volts/frequency and if that's wrong then up it to the 3000rpm. That's presuming my connecting block pattern is correct as per my other thread and I don't electrocute myself by touching the adjuster when it's running.

Q1. Is there an easier way of telling if I have a 2-pole or 4-pole alternator, eg by looking in the end cover or somewhere?
Q2. Is there a problem running the SX460 controller at the lower test speed if it's specified for a genny at the higher speed?

I have fired up the engine independently with the coupling disconnected and it seems to have a high idle even with the quadrant set to the minimum position.

Q3. Is a narrow-band governor specified on fixed speed machines for stability purposes?

Thank you
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:23:10 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Lister Petter LPW4 with Newage SX460 controlled alternator - rpm/ 2 or 4 pole?

If you take the cover off the generator end, look in there and you may be able to see the poles and count them. They are big iron semicircular parts with copper windings down them a little bit that have a few thousandths clearance from the main stator. Each one has a large lump of wound copper on it. Count 2 opposite each other or 4 in a + shape.

Last edited by BTPost; 06-15-2018 at 11:47:28 AM. Reason: Please Keep to a single Thread for any ONE Unit.....
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:37:01 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Lister Petter LPW4 with Newage SX460 controlled alternator - earthing methods for

Yours is exactly the same as img047.jpg that you attached. With the exception that you have the far right corner neutral (grounded) and the far left corner active/hot/line 240V.

We don't use RCDs here in the US for larger installations like this at all and nobody gets killed (usually). We just use the appropriate overcurrent breaker and away we go.
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