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Kohler Generators

1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768


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  #31  
Old 09-23-2018, 01:12:15 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

There, that's better. Not "perfectly" clean, but perfectly serviceable. I'm putting a light film of oil between the iron and aluminum parts. Hopefully that will help prevent the rust and corrosion I encountered. A little grease probably would have been better, but the oil was handy.

I had given the armature through bolt a few good whacks to see if it wanted to come off, but it wasn't interested. No problem, I just cleaned around it.

The generator bearing is just *slightly* rough, so I guess I really should replace it. The end bell was pretty tight when pulling it off, so that probably damaged the bearing.

Looks to be 1-3/8" OD, 9/16" ID, and 1/2" wide. Any brand and source recommendations? I'll pull it and measure it carefully before ordering.

Keith
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Last edited by Vanman; 09-23-2018 at 02:11:25 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:51:41 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post

Looks to be 1-3/8" OD, 9/16" ID, and 1/2" wide. Any brand and source recommendations? I'll pull it and measure it carefully before ordering.

Keith
I never went wrong with a FAG or SKF. ( most bearings sold seem to be these two brands )
Nachi are good too but I have had some so hard that I chipped the inner racing tapping on the shaft.

Its probably sitting on a shelf in town no need to order.
I am told some people here are having trouble sourcing bearings.
I never did I got them from one of several small local shops that supply local business.
You might also find what you need in an electric motor rewind shop ( most sit on a consignment and pay as they go using the stock )

Where practical on Generators use a 2RS bearing ( even if it did not come that ) because the seals will prevent dust and dirt and keep grease in place.
Make sure they sell you a C3 clearance bearing ( this has .003 room for the balls to spin at high speed and with slight misalignment )

Because of the age you should mic the journal of the shaft and housing for the outer race.
The bearing supplier in your area can tell you the tolerances you need for your bearing ( your going to be in the .0005 range in many cases )
Never use locktite, never hammer on them in a way that will put a shock on the balls and races.
Most of the time these things will slowly rotate in a housing to ensure proper wear but be an interference fit on the shaft.
You can heat a bearing in the oven to around 200 F to help slide it on shaft or freeze the shaft or both.

Avoid hitting, pressing anything because the act of tapping a bearing on a shaft can sometimes shift the armature and screw things right up on you.
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  #33  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:26:15 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

I just came in from the shop (laundry room lol) after pulling the bearing and measuring. It was pretty tight on the shaft.

The shaft measures 0.551". This works out to 14mm, which appears to be an odd size.

This is an oddly wide bearing, though the width is non-critical in this instance.

The inner race measures 0.566" wide. That's closer to 9/16" than anything else, but the width really doesn't matter, within reason. The outer race is narrower, though there's plenty of room for it to be wider, so I didn't even measure that.

The outside diameter measures 1.377". Within spitting distance of 35mm. This was also a tight fit in the end bell, so I'd guess that an actual 1-3/8" OD bearing would work.

Double sealed is my preference, but it is proving difficult to find anything in that size.

I'm familiar with the bearing handling protocols, and it made me cringe to have to pull so hard first the end bell, then the bearing itself to remove it. I know they don't like that.

I doubt there are any bearing houses or motor shops around here. But I'll check. I normally just mail order stuff. I can't stress enough what it's like here lol.
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  #34  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:45:43 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

Most bearings are in metric these days, and going back a long time too.
I am hard pressed to remember the last time one I dealt with was not.

Odds are someone has bearings.
Ask at the nearest machine shop or repair centre for machinery that might use bearings if they can point you in the right direction.

My local autoparts supplier is my nearest bearing source.
They have all the common stuff you would use to repair wheels on the kids mini bike or idler wheels on the snow machine skid ect..

What they don't have they order.

Measure in two places on the housing.
Motor/generator end bells tend to wear egg shaped.
After a while you get really good at feeling the tolerances of the bearing and parts and you can tell right away if things are too tight or loose or something is just wrong.

I have a little Johnson 300 watt unit not all that different I have pull out and work on one of these days.
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  #35  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:54:57 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

Man, that 14mm bore really seems to be an odd duck! Grainger and McMaster Carr skip right over that size.

But here's a listing for the exact bearing. Mine looks JUST like these, and measures the same. Maybe I can now cross reference that part number. I would really like to find the same thing in double sealed instead of just shielded.

I can drop by the auto parts store, but even those aren't very good here. There is no Napa, for instance.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-NIB-NDH-D...kAAOSwdzVXriMI
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  #36  
Old 09-23-2018, 07:26:11 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

Maybe there is a Jacuzzi, Xyleme or Armstrong pump dealer you can visit?

45 bucks for 4 when all you need is one.
And it does seem kind of expensive.

Small bearings like this are really cheap should not cost more the 2 or 3 dollars

Wajax!
might be a dealer nearby try them their big and everywhere.
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2018, 08:29:26 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

Well, right or wrong, for better or for worse, I ordered this, $13, delivered:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201990942152

I dug around on the net trying to find local places to go, and just came up dry. No pump distributors or bearing suppliers. I even found the site for the bearing supplier for the FLAPS, and they do not list that bearing on their site.

I too am used to bearings like this only costing a few bucks, but the only new ones I could find were all well over twenty, and not really an identical match in terms of the inner race being as wide as the original.

Since it's shielded instead of sealed, I will put a wee bit of grease around the gap and call it good.

There is a part of me that likes the fact that an old, new old stock , made in USA bearing, of original design, will be going in. I'm sure it'll do just fine.
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  #38  
Old 09-23-2018, 09:38:07 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

They made bearings in the USA?
I though they all came from Germany and Japan ha ha.

I just thought of something.
Delco...
Maybe its the same bearing GM used on alternators?
From a rebuild kit perhaps?

Sometimes you have a hollow inside the end bell.
You would fill this with grease and over time the bearing ( even with shields ) will pull a little grease in if it needs it.
Trouble is too much grease is bad, wrong grease is bad.
Unless you have a cavity made with a grease fitting and purge port I would not bother.
You don't want to contaminate the inside of the machine.
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  #39  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:06:56 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

The bearing bore in the end bell on this one is open, being covered only by the sheet metal brush cover when it's installed.

Delco,... Some automotive generator or other came to my mind too...
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:49:06 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: 1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Generator Set #154768

Well, I decided that, even though the engine ran great last time, I should check the ignition and valve lash. Seeing how filthy it was inside the generator, it's no surprise at how it looks behind the blower housing.

The coil tests good, I assume. 4k ohms seems reasonable. It was working. I put a zip tie around the rubber high tension bushing to avoid breaking the wire while the coil is out of the housing.

Points seem good, they looked a little tight on the gap, so maybe it'll run even better when they're adjusted to spec.

Condenser measures in megohms, but never reaches infinite, even with a multimeter, so will put in a new one. Didn't check with the condenser tester as that requires me to borrow a rectifier tube from my radio, and that's backed up against a wall.
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