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Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire


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  #1  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:08:50 PM
RobbieBott RobbieBott is offline
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Default Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

I acquired a Kohler 20RZ82 Spec: PA-185037-82N, with a Ford LSG-4231-6005-F.

I cannot get it to start. I get fire at the plugs only for a split second when I flick the start switch to Run, I can leave it spin for 10 seconds or so to check for fire and nothing. Then for a split second when I flick it back to the Off position, I get a spark.
Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? Where do I even start to look?
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:10:15 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

Hey Robbie-

I do NOT have first-hand experience with that model, or that engine, but if you get initial spark, but none after, the very first thing I'd check is wether the ignition coil primary, and it's control system were getting proper power and ground.

Here's some of the things I've seen in the past that caused that same characteristic:

1) Ignition switch contact in START position has failed. If you put the ignition switch in RUN position, then turn the engine over by hand, or use a hand-held temporary starter switch on the solenoid, and you get spark when it cranks, it's a failed start switch contact.

2) Starter solenoid IGN contact or wiring connection. Many ignition systems have ballast resistance in the RUN position, but when cranking, the starter solenoid has an auxiliary contact to bypass the ignition run wiring's ballast resistance. If that contact or wire has failed, you won't have sufficient voltage downstream of the ballast resistance to get good spark.

3) Bad coil. When internal problems occur, they CAN fire fine once, and then be shorted internally, so they're discharging inside, rather than sending the spark out.

4) bad cap or rotor... same action as above... you'll get one, mebbie two spark events, and then they jump to ground inside the cap. Cracks, carbon tracking, moisture, a pinhole thorugh the rotor...

5) Failed ignition trigger coil or amplifier (for electronic ignition)

6) Worn distributor shaft... the other end of the shaft drives the oil pump... when you crank the engine initially, you'll get spark, but as soon as there's any oil pressure, the oil pump shaft deflects, pushing the distributor shaft out of alignment with the trigger or points...


7) Bad battery cables, terminals, or battery. A failed battery, cables, or terminals may be cranking an engine just fine, but the current load is high enough to pull down the system voltage during cranking below a threshold neccesary to fire the coil well.

8) Bad ground, particularly between the battery ground-point, and the ignition and other wiring.

9) Bad coil ground. Doesn't happen often, but a bad coil ground will limit primary current AND... reduce the happiness of secondary (high-voltage) too. Loose clamp on coil, etc., will limit the amount of current that can flow through coil primary, hence, limit spark intensity.

And finally:

More modern generator control systems have safety circuits... if the oil pressure falls below a certain threshold, or the water temperature rises above, or the frequency exceeds a certain point, the generator shuts down.

In order to START, though... the safety loop must be bypassed... at least... the oil pressure segment. If yours has such a system, the oil pressure switch bypass circuit may have failed.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:23:22 AM
AlanR AlanR is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieBott View Post
I acquired a Kohler 20RZ82 Spec: PA-185037-82N, with a Ford LSG-4231-6005-F.

I cannot get it to start. I get fire at the plugs only for a split second when I flick the start switch to Run, I can leave it spin for 10 seconds or so to check for fire and nothing. Then for a split second when I flick it back to the Off position, I get a spark.
Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? Where do I even start to look?
If you are only getting one spark when switching to run, and one spark when switching to off, it sounds like the coil negative is staying grounded - either the ignition amplifier is not switching the ground connection off when the pickup tells it to, or the pickup is bad and not telling the amplifier to switch. Note that I'm assuming you HAVE verified that the distributor shaft IS turning....
http://www.skilledcrafting.com/onanf...0(Sep1998).pdf
This manual gives you the Ford service/diagnosis procedures, but note that this basic engine was used on Pintos and Ranger pickups, so you might check your public library for a Chiltons or Motors manual.

Alan
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:00:18 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

Does this unit have the coil and distributor or the newer electronic ignition system that ford used?

Bill
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:39:12 PM
RobbieBott RobbieBott is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

I am very sorry for the delayed response. Work has me going all over.

So here is what I found. I took off the cap of the distributor, turned over the engine and it is not turning. Neither is the cam at the top of the motor. The timing belt is still good. I will have to take a little more time to pull off the radiator and etc to bet a better view of what's going on.

Does anyone know what turns the distributor gear? The oil pump maybe? But I have to now figure out why the oil pump isn't turning.

Thank You all for the responses it gave me a starting place.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:31:32 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

Yes, the oil pump turns the distributor and the camshaft. If neither is turning then the belt is stripped or something. Easy fix, depending on how the radiator is mounted.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:34:52 AM
RobbieBott RobbieBott is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

Had to drain and remove the radiator and etc. in order to get to the timing belt but I ordered a new belt, and got it in place, and timed. How is it better to run these things +10, TDC/0, or -10 degrees in timing?

Just a note on this engine there is no timing mark on the gear that turns the oil pump. You set that position by putting the distributor on firing position one. Mine was marked by a yellow dot. You can also find position one by following the first cylinder spark plug wire back to the distributor. I regret not taking pictures to post here. If I have to take it apart again for something I'll make sure I take pictures for reference for someone else.

Here is the outcome. I am not able to get it up to full speed my LP regulator is too small to flow enough fuel. Or at least I hope that is the issue.... I ordered a two stage regulator which will hopefully be able to flow enough to get me enough BTUs. Once I know for sure this thing will handle a load and actually produces a electricity I will more it to its final resting place and cut my under ground fuel line and splice it in. Anyone know how much propane these things use?

http://pc.cd/D4m

Is there no way to edit a post after you've posted a reply?

Anyways on this particular engine parts from a 1980 Ford Mustang 2.3L seem to be matching up perfectly. Timing belt, gaskets, thermostat housing, valve cover gasket, have all fit perfectly. I haven't tried anything electrical yet such as distributor and etc.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:14:05 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

I seem to recall the 20RZ uses around 250,000-300,000 BTUH at full load. Thatís just from memory. If you need an exact number for sizing I can go dig out my manual and quote the specs.

Bill
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:31:39 PM
RobbieBott RobbieBott is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the info. So my 120 gallon tank won't last but a few days at that rate....

Are the newer 20kw units from today more efficient or not by that much?

I would love to get a copy of that manual. Would you by chance have it digital form so you can email it or upload. I can provide you a link to upload it to my storage if its to big to email.

Thank You,
Robbie Bott
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:04:03 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 20RZ82 Not starting/No Fire

I actually went to look in the manual for the fuel consumption table to send you a pic, but the manual doesnít have a copy of the data sheet in it! Ugh!

The genset will use about half the fuel at 1/4 load.

I probably have an electronic copy in archives somewhere. Iíll have to see if I can find it.

I donít think the 20RZ is bad for fuel consumption, itís probably pretty close to current units in terms of fuel use. The only way to really see a big difference in fuel consumption over the load curve is to use a variable speed generator, and that means an inverter generator.


Bill
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