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Kohler Generators Restoring, maintaining and operating vintage Kohler generators.

Kohler Generators

My little Kohler Substation


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  #21  
Old 02-05-2019, 08:22:26 AM
Mike Cushway Mike Cushway is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Vanman,
You are correct. That would have given me fits. Now, I will have to determine which side is energized at rest...... assuming the slate side?

Zepher,
The glass fuse panel will not fit in the breaker box, so I will mount it externally in another box. I certainly understand your concern.

I ALWAYS disconnect the battery when working on the control or wiring on these autostart units.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:26:26 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Be aware that fuses have a current rating, a voltage rating and a breaking capacity. The common AGC glass fuses at the one amp rating and at 240 Volt are only certified to break 35Amps. Fuses also have time / current curves which indicate how fast they will operate. Very critical for large power systems.

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/ea...data-sheet.pdf and for higher rated fuses

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...GBB_Series.pdf

The higher rating fuses are usually filled with an inert silica material which enhances the breaking capacity.They also have ceramic bodies to contain the arc and its effects. If the initial current transient during a fault exceeds 35A then I would not use that fuse at 240 Volt. AGC is an acronym for Automotive Glass Cartridge.

Mike
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:34:59 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Might be easier / better to connect your meter to the appropriate terminal on the back of the controller. I *believe* it is labeled A for Armature, but I'm not looking at a schematic just now.

Yep, a quick glance at a schematic seems to confirm this. Terminal A connects to the (AC) armature externally, and the series winding of the main relay internally, before the generator relay. The perfect place to connect a volt meter.

Last edited by Vanman; 02-05-2019 at 02:38:59 PM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:14:44 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiomike View Post
The higher rating fuses are usually filled with an inert silica material which enhances the breaking capacity.They also have ceramic bodies to contain the arc and its effects. If the initial current transient during a fault exceeds 35A then I would not use that fuse at 240 Volt. AGC is an acronym for Automotive Glass Cartridge.

Mike
The silica filled ones are the “HRC” type (high rupture capacity). They look like a ceramic tube, you can see anything inside.

Good call on the interrupting capacity by the way.

You can use a beefy resistor to limit the fault current. A 10 ohm resistor in a 120 volt circuit will limit the fault current to about 12 amps. The resistor will have little effect on the meters reading. You need to use a high-wattage (like 10+ watts) to make sure the resistor doesn’t fuse open before the fuse blows.

On big stuff use “regular” building type fuses like SBS or similar. 100,000 amp interrupting capacity. At work I use fuses like this (actually, we use ultra fast fuses) on meters in switchboards in the datacenters.

Bill
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:40:38 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Well, while these little generators are beefy for sure at ~475 lbs, they're only 1-1/2 KVA continuous. Instantaneous short circuit current would probably be less than ~100 amperes.

Last edited by Vanman; 02-06-2019 at 09:59:38 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2019, 08:50:17 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Have you ever seen a motor starting kva or impedance rating for any of the little onans? It’s possible to calculate available fault current from that info. I have to do that for facility designs to size circuit breakers. I’ve never done it for a small set though. Typical residential circuit breaker interrupting rating is 10,000 amps symmetrical so it doesn’t matter much for the loads, but maybe it would for meter fuses.

You can always cheat and use the ones I mentioned earlier with the 100,000 amp interrupting rating and not worry about it Id probably just use the ceramic body 1/4” fuses and call it a day.

Bill
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2019, 09:56:24 PM
Mike Cushway Mike Cushway is offline
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Ok, this is just too cool!

I start the genny on a light switch controlling a 200w incandescent bulb above the genny, which gives me plenty of light to monitor the engine and control. The genny shows120v at this 200w load. When I plug in a a second set of two 300w bulbs the genny drops a few rpm's, the generator load relay (avove the brushes) energizes with an audible click and the voltage on the meter bumps up to 125. The darn thing is actually working the way it was intended. Another good day at the Hemlock Springs substation.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2019, 10:12:36 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Congrats Mike!

How about some pics for your buddies here on the ‘Stak who helped you get it going

Bill
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:38:45 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Calculating the short circuit levels of generators, you need to know the impedance of the unit. The usual three impedances are the sub-transient X'', the transient X' and the steady state X, plus their time constants, t'', t' and t. There are lots of pages out there to help.
http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibr...ircuit|generic

https://www.jcalc.net/generator-shor...ent-calculator is a simple on line calculator.

https://electrical-engineering-porta...nous-generator

It is all down to finding the values.

Mike
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:56:24 PM
Mike Cushway Mike Cushway is offline
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Default Re: My little Kohler Substation

Here are a few pics taken in poor light conditions. I'll get some better ones when I can open the big door.

Vanman, I ran a new lead for the fuseblock handling the meters from the "A" terminal as you suggested. It works perfectly. Thank you for that tip. It cleaned up the issue of me having to throw the main when idle.
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