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Running Surplus 3-Phase Welders on Single-Phase Power


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  #1  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:03:42 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Post Running Surplus 3-Phase Welders on Single-Phase Power

Hey Everybody-

If you're interested in getting a good welder, but you're on a low budget, used industrial-type 3-phase welders can be found for incredibly cheap prices.

Many people say that three-phase machines cannot be made to perform properly on single-phase power, but Peter Haas and I have found a technique that proves otherwise. I've been working with Millers, but I believe others will work just fine using similar technique.

I've documented the technique and method (no withheld secrets anywhere) and posted them freely, so check it out, and give them a try. If you run into difficulty, or would like to discuss it further, shoot me an Email, and I'll reply, or give you a call.

So far, I've done:

Miller CP-200 (MIG)
Miller SRH-333 (stick/tig supply)
Miller CP-250TS (spray-transfer only- still messing with it to make it happy on short-arc)

Next up:
Miller CP-300
22 Airco 300 MIG supplies (yep... twenty two of 'em)
a Lincoln somethingorother with digital controls

Here's where I've posted the first three:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-199832/

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-199832/

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-199832/
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:37:16 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

All 3 of those links go to the same post, is that correct? I have a 3 phase carbon arc power supply which I think it is a re-branded Miller machine (stick), if this works on it that would be sweet. Honestly suck at electrical, I'll show this to a friend and see if he understands it better. Thanks!
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:49:31 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

Argh... you're right... must'a had copy-paste problems.

CP-200 MIG: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-199832/

SRH-333 Stick/TIG:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-201310/

CP-250TS MIG: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-206509/

That should work better.

---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------

The basic concept of all of these, is that the welding transformer is based on a 3-phase core... having 3 sections, and built so that magnetic flow circulates through the core in a figure-8 pattern.

Wire the far left and far right cores so that they're operating opposite of eachother (criss-cross one). Wire the CENTER coil in EITHER orientation, but pass each leg through a motor-run capacitor of sufficient size to create 90 degrees of phase shift at full load current.

What this does, is force the core to function in it's original design-plan, and once the flux is spinning in a coherent figure-8, you'll get full functionality and output.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:00:55 AM
Matco Matco is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

I know I'm responding to an old post... did you ever convert the Miller CP-300? Could you post your results?
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:51:30 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matco View Post
I know I'm responding to an old post... did you ever convert the Miller CP-300? Could you post your results?
Hi Matco-

I have not gotten to converting MY CP-300 to single YET, but I do have one waiting. I HAVE however, advised several others on converting the CP-300, and all have found success. The general agreement of all, is that 130uF was the 'happy' value for it, and that they weld extremely well on single-phase.

Keep watching- one of them SHOULD be posting his diagram and connection procedure soon... but for a hint... it's very similar to the CP-200, but the CP-300s I've seen so far have all been DELTA input machines, so the mod is substantially easier... eliminate the cross-connections of the delta, break out the primary leads for each transformer segment, and wire in the capacitors...

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Old 07-11-2013, 12:27:31 AM
Bob Phillips Bob Phillips is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

Back in the olden days and being around a excess of 3-phase motors and knowing a ole smart millwright/machinist, 3-phase can be made/generated from driving a 3-phase motor with a single phase, 22/240 volt, slave motor... I ran my first small machine shop, single phase wired, by this method... I drove a 5 HP 220/240 motor pulleyed to a small 1/4 horse 220/240 single phase motor... Using a drum switch, start the single phase motor... When the speed is up to approx. 1/2 or full speed of the driven 220/240- 3 phase motor, switch the juice off the single phase motor and direct it to the 3-phase motor through the drum switch... Presto, your 3-phase motor will now generate a phase from its 3rd leg... Simply use the 3 HOT legs of the 3-phase motor to run lathes, mills, welders, etc, etc, etc... You can run the driving belt off the pulley of 1/4 HP motor if desired or let it be driven by the 3-phase, 5 HP motor... Bob
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:08:22 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

Yes, that's referred to as a Rotary Phase Converter, and the prevalent description is the Fitch-Williams white-paper.

One could drive a three-phase welder from a single phase source by employing a Fitch-Williams, but it's pretty pointless to do so, just for the sake of a welder, if the welder can be internally configured as described above. Reason being, is that the Fitch-Williams utilizes single phase input at 180 degrees, to drive two of the three idler motor's legs (at 120 degree intervals) for purpose of generating third phase suitable for starting other machines. IN the process of doing so, there's substantial limitations, particularly in driving what appear in finality as resistive loads (welding)... and the end result, is that it takes considerably more iron, complexity, and motion to synthesize that third phase, than to reconfigure the transformer core to simply run in a four-quadrant mode, with the center coil being shifted 90 degrees.

I initially test my shop machines, including my welders, on a 10hp RPC I made many years ago... and while it works well for what it does, it simply cannot compete with the performance and integral nature of doing an internal conversion on a welder.

By the way, A CP-300 was successfully converted by a gentleman who read the posts and downloaded writeups from the PM forum. He reported that it's performance is everything expected and more, and he noted that he'd be posting a full step-by-step process fairly soon.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:41:06 PM
poppi poppi is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

just bought Miller Econo Twin HF 60Hz 460 Volt one phase welder.i am told that i can get a one phase transformer rated at 10KVA 208/230 volt to 440/460 volt or vice versa and run it since it is a one phase machine. however looking at attached schematics i believe if i do some changes i will end up with a one phase machine?
AT Schematic 460/575 Volt 60 H z Models with HF
1.remove at L2 between 8/10 PRI T1......S1 and CTI .......18/17.....CB.....
2.remove at L1 between 7/20 PRI T1.......FM.........
3.remove at T1 SOP 25/23 .....CB........W CB......
AT Schematic 208/230 Volt 60 Hz Models with HF
1. add .......CB1....... at L1 and L2........
2. add........FM..........between 9/10 at PRI T1.......
3. .....run 208/230 juice thru L1 and L2 and start burning rod.......
eye..... hope...... eye...... am not off the wall here and agent orange is taking over.........LOL.....
Thanks in Advance
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:01:37 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

Without opening it up and looking at the 575v transformer primary connections, can't tell. There's a good possibility that they're actually using same transformer for both the 208/230 and 575v, however, they're not indicating anything on this diagram that would support it one way or the other.

If the 575v transformer primary is segmented (meaning, several windings, with interconnections made in series, but not shown in this drawing) then all you'd hafta do, is break that series connection, try to figure out the voltage drops of each segment, and wire them in parallel combination that yields closest to 240. At that point, it'd be plug-and-play.
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Old 08-15-2013, 04:52:44 PM
poppi poppi is offline
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Default Re: Running surplus 3-phase welders on single-phase power

dKamp
thanks
my friend
i will give it a try in the next week or two and eye will keep you posted..........
poppi
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