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kellogg 321 pump rebuild


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  #1  
Old 03-07-2019, 09:31:42 AM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default kellogg 321 pump rebuild

well its been about a year since i started and then put this project off, you guys had helped with some questions way back.
i finally got it done and looks ok, runs well, there is a noise when its running i think its normal and just air pumping or passing through the copper line filling tank. cause if you hold the copper line tight in hand (before line is hot lol) it quiets substantionally.
i have a video of it but dont know how to get it to guys to get opinions, it wont upload here im assuming only pictures upload.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:27:03 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Looks good! I have a Kellogg American, don't recall the model. Mine made a noise that sounded like milking a cow. Turned out the check valve at the tank was restrictive, causing the air flow into the tank to make a spraying sound. I removed the guts from the valve to make it free flowing, and the noise disappeared, and the motor current decreased. In your case, the street elbow at the tank may be contributing to noise. Street els are more restrictive than a normal el and nipple.

Keith
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:46:18 PM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

thanks, you guys helped me get there.
i wondered about the unloader valve restricting making the noise, but i assumed it would be bad to run without it? street 90 is still restrictive but i did drill them out to be round and more free flowing.(talking little bit nothing immense).
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:13:16 AM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

checked on compressor yesterday, now there is a small oil spot underneath of the unloader valve and fittings? what the heck is this about? the whole reason i rebuilt everything inside was when it was givien to me it was covered in oil like it was getting blow by. how would i be getting some blow by now, esp cause its only been running a week and of that only has about 20 min total running time.
any ideas
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:48:15 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Hmmm... If it has new rings, maybe they haven't fully seated yet?
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:05:27 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Why dont you pull the intercoolers and see if oil has pooled in them? That would give you a good idea of where the oil is coming from. If you honed the cylinders before replacing the rings, and verified that the bore/piston/rings could stay standard sized with the appropriate clearance, than the rings should only need a couple hours of run time to seal up. I have rebuilt many Quincy compressors and they usually do not pool oil ontop of the pistons for more than a few minutes after a full rebuild. I am not sure how many rings, and what kind of rings are on a Kellogg compressor as I have never worked on one. They are supposed to be a good compressor, so check the basics first. Are you running the recommended oil, in the right quantity? How does the breather on the compressor look?

Chris
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:14:11 AM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

i can do that on the lines to look for oil.
wasnt sure oil to run, it has sae30w right now, to the mark on the dipstick.
breather is good.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:22:53 AM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Usually compressor manufacturers specify a mineral oil of some kind. Kellogg apparently recommends a naphthenic oil in the 290-350 viscosity range. See page 15. Your compressor uses ring oilers to keep everything lubricated.

http://kellogg-american.com/wp-conte...compressed.pdf

Chris
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:12:56 PM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

wow now really confused reading about diff oils,and later in the manual talks about more oils
Tellus Oil 41 Rotella
Del vac 1230 R
Teresstic 100
are a few but i cannot seem to find a specifc one to use alot of talk of them or 55gal barrels, i need 1 qt. lol
and just alot of reading about the naphthenic oil.
guess ill try to call production tool see if they have something for machines
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:02:45 AM
europachris europachris is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Basically what Kellogg is saying is to use 30W above 55F and 20W below that, and 10W if it's super cold.

Any good quality piston air compressor oil will be fine, or keep running your 30W, assuming it matches the temperature requirements. Non-detergent oil is preferred, which is pretty hard to find these days. Compressors benefit from anti-corrosion additives as well as anti-wear and anti-foaming. Any decent tool and equipment dealer that handles quality air compressors should have something suitable, although anything brand labeled will be $$ (i.e. Ingersoll, Quincy, etc.) but for a quart or two it won't be too bad.

I have an older Quincy 210 pump that I found brand new on Craigslist 10 years ago for $100. Yes, $100. Swapped out the Quincy X8 pump that was on my old Binks 1 hp compressor. The 210 is a single stage 2 cylinder like the X8, but it is full industrial duty with pressure lubrication. I don't even recall what oil I have in it right now, might be some Porter-Cable compressor oil I have, or just 30W non-detergent. My point is that for home shop use it doesn't matter very much because it will never see enough hours to make any difference. 200 hours on a 20,000 hour pump just isn't significant. :-)

Chris
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:28:22 AM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

ok so have new developement/ issue, compressor was running last night while i was working,after it kicked on and off like normal a couple times, i was working and heard air loss thinking which hose has a leak but was coming from compressor, air is leaking back out of the pump and back out through the air filter!
so im thinking the unloader valve is stuck, took that apart wiped out and cleaned put back together and it still does the same thing, so am i correct in thinking that my unloader valve is bad? how else would air go backwards from the tank this is the only piece of the puzzle i imagine.
what kind of damage would this do also?


side note to previous post i did drain and fill with 30 non detergent oil.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:52:50 AM
kwfiggatt kwfiggatt is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Do you have a check valve installed between the outlet of the compressor and the tank? This is usually necessary to keep air from pushing back into the compressor. You might want to check if it is leaking if you have one installed...

Kevin
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Old 03-27-2019, 11:21:30 AM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

just the unloader maybe im calling it wrong but yes air can only go one way and also has a tiny pin hole in it to relieve pressure of pump head.
i guess if that is failing somehow only thing i could think of, its not full pressure backwards but a bit though!

---------- Post added at 11:21:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19:34 AM ----------

yes its a unloader check valve,

just like this but different size

https://www.grainger.com/product/CDI...ck-Valve-4X998
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:04:56 PM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

also what do you guys think about, if i put the new unloader/check at the tank which would have about 5-6ft of copper between it and the air pump? so essentially it would have 5-6ft to vent off instead of currently i have it within 12inches of pump now.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:16:06 AM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

any thoughts fellas, on placement of valve
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:47:21 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Seems the check valve is normally threaded right into the tank. A longer line between the pump and the check valve would only be helpful if the motor struggles to come up to speed when it restarts.

If you're getting air back through the compressor when it is stopped, then that valve must be leaking. This may also cause the motor to struggle to come up to speed. Might be able to take apart the check valve and clean it.

Keith
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Old 03-29-2019, 08:43:16 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

every check valve ive seen are right into the tank, have seen them get crud in them and leak, take apart clean and reassemble. if that dont work replace.
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Old 03-29-2019, 09:42:25 AM
kwfiggatt kwfiggatt is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

Along with the check valve at the tank, the discharge valve on the high pressure cylinder should also keep air from back feeding to the compressor.

The tank check valve and HP cylinder discharge valve pretty much do the same thing, with the exception of when the unloader bleeds off the air in the line between the tank and pump, the tank valve holds the pressure in the tank.

If the HP discharge valve is leaking, though, you are going to get a lot of re-expanded air into the HP cylinder, which greatly reduces efficiency and capacity output.

I'd disassemble both the tank check valve and the high pressure discharge valve and see if they are leaking... Did you do anything to the valves when you rebuilt the pump?

Kevin
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Old 03-29-2019, 11:30:43 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

I would guess that he was hearing the unloader vent coming back through the air cleaner. Otherwise, In order to get air coming back through the pump, the unloader would have to fail, and air would have to be leaking past ALL of the valves in the pump. On my Kelloggs the unloader vents to the inlet, and is thus muffled by the air cleaner. But it is a good idea to check the valves.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:21:03 PM
skindaddy skindaddy is offline
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Default Re: kellogg 321 pump rebuild

alright crisis averted i believe replaced the unloader check valve with new one (at the tank this time) also had to replace copper again, as the only unloader i could find here at work was bigger. which worked out great that knocking or tinging sound i had is gone as well much quieter. must have been to restricted. hopefully it keeps performing well.
oh all complete valves and springs were replaced when i rebuilt it.

just freaked for a minute as i have just rebuilt it all.
just hope those oil drips clear up i was getting out of the hole in the unloader valve.
thanks again guys
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