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Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair


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  #801  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:48:52 AM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

I hate big airports! Charlottetown is more my pace. One gate, walk outside to the plane and not too busy! I had a connection a few years ago that’s as impossible. I flew to Las Palmas, Canary Islands to join a ship. My luggage was only checked to Madrid for some reason so when we landed I had to collect it and missed the connection. Made LONG travel even longer I was awake over 40 hours by the time I got to the ship.

Looking like rain here this afternoon so good day to play in shop. I’m going to lift the W2C off the cart so I can mount a battery box and put some bolts and fender washers up through the bottom to hold it down. Things were rushed to get it to the show and it’s lag bolted down which I don’t trust long term. Going to make a more factory appearing muffler too.

Does anyone have or have pics of the factory bypass filter for there series? In the book they look a lot like the canister from an N series ford tractor but there’s no sense of scale. Could be a neat addition if I could find some dimensions.

Last edited by AngrySailor; 07-17-2019 at 11:21:33 AM. Reason: Phone curses like a sailor randomly
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  #802  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:40:36 AM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Thinking about buying these pure chinesium gauges... anyone used them? They look kinda vintage. Can’t seem to find a matching frequency meter though.
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  #803  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:45:03 AM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Canít say Iíve used them, but they at least look nice. The tapered scale on the ammeter is nice too.

You might be able to find a reed frequency meter that is close at fair radio sales (www.fairradio.com). They have had them in the past, they still have a lot of meters. Surplus sales of Nebraska is another place to try, but they will be more expensive. On the plus side, everything Iíve ever gotten from them has been pristine and like new.

Bill
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  #804  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:48:10 AM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

I am wondering about the construction of the ammeter... it doesn’t have a CT and shows to be wired in series which will pass the full current through the meter. I would assume it uses a shunt resistor?
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  #805  
Old 07-17-2019, 11:29:20 AM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngrySailor View Post
I am wondering about the construction of the ammeter... it doesnít have a CT and shows to be wired in series which will pass the full current through the meter. I would assume it uses a shunt resistor?
It might have an internal CT, but for a 100A meter I'd doubt it. My guess is it NEEDS a CT, and the small writing that isn't legible in the pics (the writing in the lower corners of the meter) probably says what kind of CT it needs. I'd guess it needs a 5A CT, so you'd need a 100:5A CT which is pretty common.

Shunt resistors are usually used with DC meters. You rarely, if ever, see them using with AC meters that generally use CTs.

Bill
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  #806  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:09:02 PM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

yeah, I was still on coffee #1

It doesnít callfor a CT in the description and shows it wired in series. This generator is only 26 amps also. Would be nice if they had a 50a range...

So I warmed her up, removed from the cart and drained the oil. Iíll have to install a pipe for future oil changes so I donít make a mess. This is the first oil change since the rebuild and I probably let it go a little long as heís got a few hours on her now. Thereís the expected metal (very fine) from the new rings and bores seating in but nothing at be alarmed about. Iím going to build a battery compartment under the generator end and finish some details on the cart while the generator is off.

Huh. Pics wonít upload
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  #807  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:16:21 PM
gnucklehead gnucklehead is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

the mobile version of scamazon isn't giving you all the details.. CT is required.

https://www.amazon.ca/uxcell-0-100A-.../dp/B07G9GRD7Y
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  #808  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:27:45 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngrySailor View Post
It doesnít callfor a CT in the description and shows it wired in series. This generator is only 26 amps also. Would be nice if they had a 50a range...
Per the link kindly provided by gnucklehead, I see that this meter needs a 100:5A CT.

You could use a 50:5A CT instead and the meter would read 0-50A instead of 0-100A. That would be a little better range for your 26A genset, although I'd rather have maybe a 30 or 35 amp full scale meter for a 26A genset. Not sure if you could find such a beast though. If you could find a 30:5A CT, that would give you a 30A full scale reading on your meter.

Basically you can use different CT ratios to make the meter read whatever you want as full scale. You then can either scale it in your mind, or use a program like "meter" to print a new scale out so that it will read out correctly. I've done this lots of times when I need a meter for something.

Bill
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  #809  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:01:18 PM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Thanks guys, yeah the Chinese description didnít make any sense, couldnít see running 100a through that meter! Iíll look for a 50a range as Iíd like it to read directly, re-scaling is a good idea too. I have a cool old ďMarionĒ meter that would look cool but itís milliamperes DC...

Anyone else having trouble uploading pics? Server error or something
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  #810  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:03:38 PM
geezer88 geezer88 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Another trick to change ranges is to make multiple loops of the current carrying conductor. Count each time through the loop to divide by the meter's range. For example two loops on a 100 amp range will give 50 amps full scale. Downside is needing to modify the scale inside the meter if you want to avoid the mental math each time you read it.

tom
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:06:26 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Geezer is right, you can multiply current with multiple passes through the CT too. Three passes would give you about 33.33A full scale. An oddball value, but pretty a pretty good full-scale for a 26A genset. You'd definitely want to print a new scale for that though!

The closer your full scale meter reading is to whatever full power output of the genset is, the better resolution AND accuracy you'll get at all current levels your genset puts out.

Bill
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  #812  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:14:44 PM
geezer88 geezer88 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

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Originally Posted by Zephyr7 View Post

The closer your full scale meter reading is to whatever full power output of the genset is, the better resolution AND accuracy you'll get at all current levels your genset puts out.

Bill
Good point. A rule of thumb I've used is full scale should be about 120% of max for what ever variable you are measuring. This gives you reasonable resolution for normal operation, and still see the details of an overload situation.

This gives you the ability of seeing the current, current reading and judging if you have headroom to add another load.

tom
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  #813  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:48:21 PM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Thanks guys. Itís hard to find matching volt and amp gauges... I found a pair that are 0-250 volts and 0-50 amps that should look ok. They donít specify any information about a CT though. The ammeter Iím looking at is an uxcell 62t51-a. I looked at their website also and didnít see anything. Entirely possible Iím just retarded, I seem to be having ďone of those daysĒ

Iíd like to stick with direct reading on the scale, that way if I display it I donít have to explain to people why the meter reads some odd value.
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  #814  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:50:55 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Of course, I am partial to this, with full scale = 40 amps

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  #815  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:55:45 PM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Now THAT would be cool!
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:10:57 PM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Chopped a hole for the battery box. I though about a 6v battery either side... maybe someday change it up. Going to pick up some metal for bottom support under battery and maybe roll some sheet metal for a repop muffler
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  #817  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:58:31 PM
EICBob EICBob is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Hi Angry
I have some older style analog voltage, amperage and reed frequency meter that might do you some good. Not quite as vintage looking as the ones you posted but might fit the bill. I can post some pictures when I get home tonight if you like?


-Bob
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:30:45 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngrySailor View Post
Thanks guys, yeah the Chinese description didn’t make any sense, couldn’t see running 100a through that meter! I’ll look for a 50a range as I’d like it to read directly, re-scaling is a good idea too. I have a cool old “Marion” meter that would look cool but it’s milliamperes DC...
Right under the big "A", it says "100/5" which means it needs 5A to read 100A full scale, so you need a 100:5A CT. The link to Amazon has a better pic that can be zoomed in to read the other stuff on the meter face.

Fair Radio Sales meters are here: https://fairradio.com/panel-meters-gauges-and-shunts/

You can make your DC meter read AC with a rectifier and cap. You just have to calibrate it first. It's not difficult to use a small pot or rheostat to "trim" the circuit so that the meter reads correctly. When I build stuff and use analog meters (I like analog meters ), I almost never have a meter that reads exactly what I want. I usually have to print new scales (I've thought about silkscreening the scales too, but it's a lot of setup for one meter), and then I use resistor networks to get the meters to read the way I want. Sometimes I use a small op amp circuit if I need to have the meter read something WAY different from what it was originally intended to do.

Think of the meter as just a display. Then think of a simple interface circuit to make the display show what you want it to. When you start thinking about these devices as individual components and not a full system, you start being able to adapt things to whatever you want to do. It's not difficult. If you find a really awesome meter you want to use, but it measures the wrong thing, let me know and I can sketch an interface or scaling circuit for you.

Bill

Last edited by Zephyr7; 07-17-2019 at 04:57:18 PM.
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  #819  
Old 07-17-2019, 04:44:53 PM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Bob, sure post some pics, if they fit the bill would be great.

Zephyr, yeah I see that on the 100a gauge. Thanks for pointing out. What about the 50a one? It just has the model number there... having a bad brain day today guys

Rolled some sheet metal at friends shop to make a muffler, ordered a 1 1/2Ē storm hat too. Should look close to the original muffler pics from that NOS that sold last summer.

Forgot pic
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:59:16 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Onan W2C Fairbanks Morse Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngrySailor View Post
Zephyr, yeah I see that on the 100a gauge. Thanks for pointing out. What about the 50a one? It just has the model number there... having a bad brain day today guys
I would guess the 50A meter probably needs a 50:5A CT. 5A output CTs are pretty common, probably the most common, actually. I can't really read that 50A meter face well enough to see for sure though.

Bill
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