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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)


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  #1  
Old 07-01-2013, 10:44:37 PM
eeprete eeprete is offline
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Default Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

I picked up an older speedaire 60 gallon compressor a couple of months... The 1.5 HP Westinghouse induction motor runs on either 110 or 220, but currently wired for 220 (top section of drawing)..

I am switching it to 110 as I only have 110 in my garage. My question though is with regard to the capacitors. Previously the T8 wire (capped together with T9 on one end, terminated at one capacitor). The same held true for T7, capped at T6 and terminated at the capacitor).

Do I still terminate T7 and T8 at the original capacitors (one left, one right) while joining them with T9?

Are the capacitors even necessary? Any help is appreciated.

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Old 07-02-2013, 07:53:29 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Well, I cannot see your picture, but......Yes, the capacitors are certainly needed and they will function properly on 120 volts if connected correctly following the diagram.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:34:05 AM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

You do not say if it a capacitor start or a capacitor run motor. Is it a single or two speed motor as well as dual voltage? Does it have a centrifugal or similar switch for the run winding?

Does the Motor have any data on it that may be helpful, model and type. The markings on the ends of the windings T1, etc can be standard but a diagram would be really helpful of the existing 220 connections.

Mike
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:07:04 PM
eeprete eeprete is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Thank you both. Here is the image correctly linked. I drew this over the weekend. So now that I know the capacitors are still in the equation, I guess all I have to figure out is how 7, 8, 9 connect with each other and also with the two capacitors.

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  #5  
Old 07-02-2013, 04:48:37 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Appears to be a cap start and cap run motor and the cap wire connections T8 and T7 connect as shown for the LV 120v. T7, 8 9, together per the diagram.

You need to consider the following info before or during your testing at 120v for a 1 1/2hp air compressor!

You need to check the FLA (full load amps on motor nameplate) of the motor for 120v vs 220v. Your compressor will operate more user friendly on 220v and the motor will be happier and if the breaker box is in the garage, I would consider installing a 220v circuit for the compressor instead of operating it on 120v.
A 20 amp residential convenience receptacle may not allow the unit to start without tripping out a 20 amp breaker. nominal FLA amps vs hp @120v are as follows, 1/2hp=9.8amps, 3/4hp=13.8a, 1hp=16a, 1 1/2hp=20a. (this is the amps when running and the starting amps will be about 6 times the running amps, therefore about max hp for a 120v 20 amp receptacle is 1/2hp for a air compressor.Whereas a 1 1/2hp motor at 220v will draw about 1/2 of the 120v fla amps or 10 amps running, (therefore the 1 1/2hp motor will be happier at 220v@ 10 amps and #12 cu wire and a 20 amp breaker or 15 amp time delay fuses. (If a long run of over 50 ft use #10 cu wire and if the 20 amp breaker nuisance trips install a 30 amp thermal magnetic breaker (standard 2 pole breaker)

Stay safe!
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2013, 08:48:02 PM
eeprete eeprete is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Hi Arkie, thanks for the detailed response. Are both capacitors run and start or is one the run and one the start? Both have exactly the same markings. Completely understand about the benefits of running 220 to the garage.

It seems I have also have two separate 110 lines run there. One appears to be about 8 ga running to a dedicated sub panel (main box has a 40 amp breaker for this the type with the double switch), which a friend said was a 110 panel, the other is separate 12 gauge line running to power some lights.

At this point I'm thinking its best to start from scratch also running underground cable?
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:00:05 PM
ttyR2 ttyR2 is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

I would second the comment about getting 220V installed if you can. My old Jet mill was wired for 110V when i got it, but switching it to 220V made a HUGE difference. It spins up very fast now whereas before it took a few seconds.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:44:06 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Graingers at one time sold the speedair brand air compressor.

If you can find a Model number, Graingers tech service might give you some tips, maybe even a owners manual and parts list, or a google search will sometimes pop up as free download of info with a model number.

Probably no need in being concerned (as long as the motor is operating ok) about being start or run and or start and run caps, but if both LOOK same they are most likely both start caps.
I would consider leaving the motor wired for 220v and get 220v to the motor.
This will reduce the chance of stalling the motor when trying to get it operational at 120v and letting out the smoke.

You might also consider getting a qualified electrician to take a look IN PERSON at your 40 amp double pole sub-panel and your existing electrical for his qualified opinion. A Double pole sub-panel with #8 cu wire rated for 40amps is not normal for 110volts only, it's usually 120/240.


Stay safe!
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:03:20 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

From the number of connections and windings and a bit of research it appears to be a dual voltage start winding as well as a dual voltage run winding. You did not say it it was a capacitor start or capacitor run motor. I assume it is also single speed. Does the motor have a centrifugal switch on the shaft? This is where T9 and T10 would connect

I think the windings are as follows

Run winding one T1 - T2 winding two T3 - T4 Connected in series for 220 Volts, hence the T2 - T3 link

Start winding one T5 - T6 (through capacitor_
start winding two T7 - T8 (again through capacitor)

Again connected in series T7 - T6 linked, then T9 to switch return as T10

M and F are the other ends of the start winding.

You can easily check this with an ohm-meter. But remember the capacitor needs to be bypassed if using DC to measure the continuity.

If there is a start switch it will be from T9 - T10 and be made when the rotor is stopped.

As Arkie says 1½ HP will take a few amps, so be prepared if you are using it at the lower voltage for both the running and starting current. With an air compressor, which has a high inertia, the run up time will be longer and place a greater thermal stress on the breaker and cable.

This short simple article gives some help

http://www.groverelectric.com/howto/ look for the motor sizing pdf

This gives the circuit breaker size not the FLC of the motor.

http://www.electricmotorshop.net/ind...687&Itemid=352

Mike
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:58:01 AM
eeprete eeprete is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Arkie and everyone thanks again. My father was trained as an electrician and after HS went into mechanics eventually settling in as an Auto Electrician for 26 yrs. So at some point he's going to check this out in person for me. I also have a friend local who's an electrician.

I agree on the wiring. I pulled the subpanel cover and did the voltage check and it was 120V, is it possible for 8/2 wire to support 220? I'd think I need 8/3 to get 120/120....

The PO of the house I sense was over his head with adding any of this. He was running a small oil less husky compressor. When we moved in there was plenty of incomplete work all over. Kitchen floor hadn't even been cleaned in ten yrs. my wife and I got it looking new again.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:00:27 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

"I agree on the wiring. I pulled the subpanel cover and did the voltage check and it was 120V, is it possible for 8/2 wire to support 220? I'd think I need 8/3 to get 120/120.... "

It depends.............If all you want is "220", then yes, 2 wires and a ground will do it. However, if you want to run 120 and 240 stuff from the end of the wire, then you need a neutral, so 3 wires and a ground.

And I should add that,..........obviously in your case, 2 wires and a ground will deliver 120.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:00:09 AM
eeprete eeprete is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Jim, to answer you, yes, ideally would like both 220 and 110 in the garage, perhaps a 220 outlet and then some outlets for regular tools etc.

Here is the compressor tag with more detail, unfortunately some of its worn away:


Here is the panel going in to the garage, does this look at first glance like it could be 8 GA?
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:39:11 PM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Having the neutrals and grounds tied together on a remote sub panel is against code, and can be very dangerous.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:37:56 PM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Thanks Power. Another thing I work to correct. Should it be grounded to the housing?
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:14:38 PM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
Having the neutrals and grounds tied together on a remote sub panel is against code, and can be very dangerous.
TRUE: about what power is indicating!

Suggest you get a qualified electrician to make a inspection of your panels.

You now have neutral current on your bare grounding wire/wires and that is against code regulations, etc.
The panel will require at least a ground bar kit and the neutral and grounding conductors separated and isolated from each other at the panel.
That panel appears to be maybe a sq D and is only capable of 120 volts (or I only see one bar for one leg (120v only) and only one breaker in use, 4 spare breakers and one empty space. If no more than 6 handles (6 breaker handles) a main disconnect not required.
The wire size of the sub feeder should be imprinted on the jacket of the romex cable, sometimes kinda hard to see. If #8 it should be coming from (fed from) a not over (max of) 40 amp breaker at it's feed source.

Stay safe (and be aware that this panel IS NOW A SHOCK HAZARD.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:49:12 PM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

I'm really glad I've shared what I have, thank you all. I will be turning off the main power and removing this from the equation and start from scratch.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:57:58 PM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

My entire shop had been wired with zip cord by a PO.....
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:05:23 AM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeprete View Post
I'm really glad I've shared what I have, thank you all. I will be turning off the main power and removing this from the equation and start from scratch.
Hi - I agree - good idea to turn it off until it is properly sorted, but you probably do not have to start from scratch.
It appears that with some minor tweaks by a licensed, qualified electrician -a ground block, separation of ground and neutral, and check that it is properly connected at main panel may be all that is necessary to restore it to safe service.
Should be under 1 hour of his time.
Having a few 120 outlet circuits in the garage is nice. I have 2-dedicated 20 amp circuits with 1 GFI outlet each in my garage, and it is nice - not having to worry will I overload the circuit if the compressor starts while I am using the electric impact wrench, etc.

Originally, it was a 15 amp circuit with 1 outlet, and the garage inside and outside lights on it. If you tripped it, totally in the dark.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:57:14 AM
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

I have a similar motor but I want to do the opposite, change from 110 - 220. I ordered the higher voltage caps but the wiring diagram is a bit confusing for my simple mind. Do I just connect the new caps to the same wires and then follow the rewiring?
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:10:53 PM
Radiomike Radiomike is offline
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Default Re: Westinghouse 1.5 induction motor help (compressor motor)

Why do you think you need a higher voltage capacitor? If the motor can be wired for 110/220 then I would expect the capacitor fitted at the factory would suffice for both voltages.

Are there any markings on the capacitor, µF, mfd, voltage etc. Without knowing if this is a capacitor start motor or a capacitor run, did you get the correct type? A start only capacitor will not do well as a run capacitor, early and catastrophic failure is usual.

Mike
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