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Keck Gonnerman Q & A


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  #1641  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:06:10 AM
Larry G. Larry G. is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

The old thought of " Trial and Error" applies here. I wouldn't remove any material from the valves. Keck set the valve motions at the factory when the engines were new. So you should be able to do it again. Look at another double cylinder Keck to see how the valves are set. BTW your restoration work is top quality.

Larry G.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:51:23 AM
Larry G. Larry G. is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

Found this on auctionzip.com, a 24" Keck Gonnerman threshing machine listed in an auction located at Shipshewana,Indiana on Friday,June 1. Chupp Auctions and Real Estate LLC. It is listed with 8 other threshers. They all look to be in good condition. '' This one looks to be an Indiana Special ". The outside width of the trucks is 6 feet. Folks, if you want a Kay-Gee thresher this one would be a good choice. The auction company states they are going to run them the day before the auction. I'm going to be a salesman for Keck Gonnerman in my next life.


Larry G.

Last edited by Larry G.; 05-30-2018 at 07:20:10 PM. Reason: more info
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  #1643  
Old 06-06-2018, 12:03:59 PM
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BakerMaker BakerMaker is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

As I looked in to this further, I discovered another problem. With the crank at TDC or BDC and the eccentric set at 90 deg., the valve should not move perceptibly when the reverse lever is moved back and forth which should be true for the Miller, Baker or other gears in this class. If everything is set up right, the axis of the end of the eccentric should be lined with the axis of the pivot arm, thus resulting in no movement when the reverse lever is moved. This was not happening on the LH engine and it was off quite a bit. Determined to understand why this and couple of other things that were going on, I modeled the gear in Solidworks as well as a mathematical model in MATLAB. When I first ran the models I was having the same problem, but to a lesser degree. When I built the models, I didn't compensate for the fact that the eccentric is at angle in this condition. I added a bit to the length of the eccentric arm ( only .040" ) to line it with the pivot axis and worked OK then. This was a clue to what was going with the engine. Because of the way the valve gear is constructed, it is difficult to see how the eccentric arm was lining up so I made a tool to check the alignment and found the arm was about 1/8" short. I unbolted the eccentric arm from the eccentric casting and slotted the bolt holes so I could stretch the arm ( someone had already slotted them some before ). I stretched the arm 1/8" and VOILA, everything was copacetic. My first thought was that maybe I moved the crank axis when I rebabbitted the mains. But I went over to the RH cylinder and it was spot on as is! This is typical of the goofy stuff I found that Keck did when they built the engine ( I could fill a book ).

I also noticed other things like the ports opening different distances on the front and back part of the stroke and different distances depending on forward and reverse. The models predicted this quite well and it was confirmed by observation of the real thing. This is inherent in the geometry of the gear and not much you can do about it. However, if you look at a Baker, the belcrank arms are not 90 degrees but at an angle. This would have the effect of lengthening the stroke in one direction and shortening it in the other direction, this correcting somewhat for the asymmetrical front to back port openings. The Keck belcrank arms are at 90 degrees.

So the bottom line is I could have tried until I was blue in the face and it still would have been in error.

I have all sorts of other interesting data and graphs from the models but I won't bore you with the details.

The lead problem is still there with about .050 negative lead ( port closed ). Cutting 1/16" off each end of valve gives about .01 lead which is acceptable. If I screw up I can glue some bronze back on easy enough or cast new valves.
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Last edited by BakerMaker; 06-06-2018 at 06:41:19 PM.
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  #1644  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:26:10 AM
GreasyIron GreasyIron is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

Any news on 1623? I think the auction is/was this morning.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:33:47 PM
Larry G. Larry G. is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

My informative KGB agent told me that # 1623 is going to stay in Kentucky. It was sold as an operating engine.

Larry G.
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  #1646  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:25:30 PM
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

Here is a link to the selling of KGC #1623. It went for $16,600, my mistake.
https://www.facebook.com/haleyauctio...location=group
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:29:45 PM
GreasyIron GreasyIron is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

I'm sure I asked this before, but would somebody please refresh my memory:

Are Keck clutches supposed to go over center? Ours has stops like it doesn't, yet we've always been able to go over center, so there is no pressure from the stop. Sometime between the last two shows, something changed. Now it takes a good throw to get it over, and as soon as you get moving it usually snaps back to the stop anyway.

Over center seems much less likely to wear parts, so I'd prefer to have it working that way, unless it actually isn't supposed to.

Thanks!
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  #1648  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:11:06 PM
GreasyIron GreasyIron is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

Just to follow up: At the last show, the humidity must have been down a bit, or something else favorable, as it was almost back to prior operation without adjusting anything.

To answer my own question, reading some earlier posts in this thread, it does look like the clutch is supposed to go over - or at least it's not only me treating it as such.
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Old 10-01-2018, 05:21:13 PM
Larry G. Larry G. is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

You are correct, Greasy. The clutch is suppose to go over center.

Larry G.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:16:41 PM
bmkeste bmkeste is offline
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Default Re: Keck Gonnerman Q & A

Hello All,

I am on a hunt for a specific Keck Gonnerman steam engine. The serial number is 1868. It was previously owned by my Grandfather (Ray Kestel) and then my Father (Ken Kestel). The attached pictures are from the late 60s, but my father completely restored it when I was younger (say Early 90ís) so the paint would look a bit different. Iíll post more recent pictures if I can find them. He eventually sold it maybe 15 years ago or so, but I have no documentation on who he sold it to. If there is anyone that could provide any information regarding Sn 1868, Iíd be very appreciative. Thanks!
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