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Tandem Versus Cross Compound


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  #11  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:15:45 AM
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

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Originally Posted by FWurth View Post
An interesting thing about the Port. Beth's 24 has a simpling gear, My 24 don't. My engine also has a foot operated brake on the counter shaft, a friend's Port doesn't have that. I'm guessing that it was optional? Mine also has a Pickering governor and a extra hand operated oil pump to add extra shots of cylinder oil into the steam chest. Possibly customer applied?
Interesting your Port has a Pickering governor Frank. It is placed horizontal like they did their Waters governors? It's interesting that Port and Reeves both laid down their governors to counteract jarring fluctuations on rough ground.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:31:21 AM
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

It sits upright like other Pickerings
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:04:03 AM
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

Gary,
You're confusing Waters with Watson governors. Watson were the lay down style. PH E&T supplied Waters as standard equipment ,"other makes supplied at your own risk".
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:34:48 AM
GreasyIron GreasyIron is offline
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

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Originally Posted by FWurth View Post
An interesting thing about the Port. Beth's 24 has a simpling gear, My 24 don't.
I haven't seen Beth's engine other than in photos, but wasn't the PH gear more of a fresh steam boost to the low pressure rather than a full simpling gear like the Reeves interceptor? Wandering further off, I think Gaar Scott had, or offered, a similar arrangement on their DTC engines as I'm thinking of for PH.
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Old 06-27-2018, 04:05:50 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

The simpling valve on my 19 is a 3/8" pipe that passes live steam from the top of the steam chest (an enclosed tunnel from the governor to the port for the high pressure portion of the valve) into the open area of the steam chest. Exhaust steam from the high pressure cylinder ports into the chest, and is ported by the valve into the low pressure cylinder. The simpling valve provides a small amount of live steam to mix with the once-expanded steam to provide more push on the low pressure side. I would guess Beth's is similar, but might be a 1/2" pipe for the larger engine.

The Port Huron literature talks about the valve, and cautions against using it for any extended time (under full 175 psi, of course) as potentially damaging to engine parts. My 1913 has the valve, but it's presence was eventually discontinued, as 1919-1920 engines around here don't have even holes where it might have been. On the other hand, Anderburg's 1915 has it, and they use it on the sawmill because they are limited to 100 psi. It becomes a bit of a water hog, though.

On the Flink fan at Sycamore, I can open the valve and hear the rpm's jump.

Tom R.
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Old 06-27-2018, 04:51:24 PM
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

I'm not certain what year PH discontinued the "simpling" valve. My 1905 - 24 short has it, as does my 1913 -16 . However, my 1914 - 32 does not, nor does my 1920 - 19. I'll have to look through my catalogs to see what year they stopped mentioning the valve. We might be able to track it back to the actual engine number in the record books at Dave's. It could take some liquid detective work to pin it down...

On a side note, I believe Watson also offered a vertical design governor, though I don't know how many still exist. I'm pretty sure at least one. While we are on governors. Does anyone know of a Monarch governor in operation? Sam just rebuilt the 2" Monarch for the 16 Advance that my brother Shawn and I are restoring. It's the only one that I have ever seen. I have been asking around and haven't been able to find anyone who has first hand experience with them. We are anxious to get it under a load and see how it performs. I'm sure it will work tip top.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:35:14 PM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

Liquid detective work?!? I'm up for some of that!

The pictures of the double tandem compounds I have show the horizontal (i.e., Watson?) governor. Height, maybe?

TDR
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:45:20 PM
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

On my 30hp CC Advance, the Large cylinder has only a 1" line going to it from the main (small cylinder) steam chest with a valve in it. This valve is opened when simpled to supply live steam to the large cylinder. The exhaust from the small cylinder is also directed, by another valve, to the stack instead of the large cylinder's steam chest. I think they used a small line to limit the flow of live steam to the large cylinder so as not to break anything when simpled. Kind of like a built-in gear train protection. Reeves had a larger supply line (maybe they had a stouter gear train?) The Advance is pretty well built when it comes to the gearing though.

Dave
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:57:53 AM
Jeff Dudgeon Jeff Dudgeon is offline
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

Thank you for the information about how the simpling works on the tandem compound engines.
Does anyone have a scale model of a compound steam engine?
Jeff
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:21:23 AM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Tandem Versus Cross Compound

There is a half scale model Port Huron in the Wade Brothers collection in Whitewater, WI. I have always been told it was an actual compound, and have no evidence to prove or disprove. It was damaged in transit in an auto accident a few years ago, but I don't know the extent or if it has been repaired.
TDR
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