Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines

Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators


this thread has 14 replies and has been viewed 1600 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-27-2017, 11:27:07 AM
2Phargone 2Phargone is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Palm Harbor, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 2 Posts
Default Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Hoping for suggestions / advice / input from some of the experts here regarding five large, magnificent old Diesel Generators we have to dispose of.

We are getting ready to demolish a large building on a DOD installation here in Florida. Parts of the items involved in the building that we have to dispose of are five large antique diesel generators (2 - Worthingtons & 3 - Fairbanks-Morse).

For now they are slated to go to the local metal recycler by the pound however these engines and generators are complete and I hate the thought of turning such magnificent pieces of history into foreign cars so here’s my questions:

Does anyone know of some facility or institution (museum?) that saves such things for their historical value that might be interested?

Also, unfortunately someone has removed the ID Tags on all five of these engines so would like a recommendation or suggestion of a source that I could go to for specifications for these engines? (Particularly looking for horsepower, weight, etc.)

We can clearly see where the ID Tags used to be before they were removed but is there some other way to identify these motors? (The ID Tags are there for the generators but not the engines.)

Thanks in advance for any help or recommendations!

Here are a few photos of these units:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Fac 1740 Diesel CE&C1.jpg
Views:	400
Size:	96.3 KB
ID:	273326   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fac 1740 Diesel CE&C2.jpg
Views:	388
Size:	90.6 KB
ID:	273327   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fac 1740 Diesel CE&C3.jpg
Views:	384
Size:	63.4 KB
ID:	273328   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fac 1740 Diesel CE&C4.jpg
Views:	352
Size:	57.0 KB
ID:	273329  


Last edited by BTPost; 01-27-2017 at 01:55:54 PM. Reason: Please keep to a single Thread for any ONE Project.... and in only ONE Forum....
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-27-2017, 05:17:52 PM
yellowlister yellowlister is online now
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Granada Hills, California
Posts: 3,973
Thanks: 1,857
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,283 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Thank you for offering them to someone instead of junking them.. I have a good friend by plant city flordia that may be able to store them.


What is scrap value on them?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to yellowlister For This Post:
  #3  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:41:51 PM
G.M.Johnson G.M.Johnson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 302
Thanks: 126
Thanked 195 Times in 108 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

The Fairbanks look like opposed piston 38D8's in 6 cylinder configuration.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to G.M.Johnson For This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-27-2017, 07:08:29 PM
Ed Bezanson Ed Bezanson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Waterford, Connecticut
Posts: 1,394
Thanks: 5,445
Thanked 4,836 Times in 940 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

The Florida Flywheelers have a large collection of big engines on display at their shows near Ft. Meade area. They have a Snow engine that took many flatbed loads to get to the site. It took 4-6 years to mount and assemble. They have a web site and they are a dedicated bunch of guys. Their show is coming up near the end of Feb. Please don't scrap them unless you have no takers. Oh you will have to donate them since most groups have 501C3 tax exempt status and give a tax write off for feds. Ed B
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ed Bezanson For This Post:
  #5  
Old 01-27-2017, 08:50:31 PM
Combustor Combustor is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North of West Australia
Posts: 650
Thanks: 3
Thanked 320 Times in 248 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Hello 2Phargone,
Is it possible that when DOD decommissioned these, that they removed and filed away the plates? A local contractor here acquired a large gen set as part of a demolition job, and the plate was missing. I asked an employee of the power authority about it and he looked and found it filed away in archives. A carton of beer guaranteed its safe return, so worth asking. Regards,
Combustor.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Combustor For This Post:
  #6  
Old 01-28-2017, 09:10:09 AM
2Phargone 2Phargone is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Palm Harbor, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowlister View Post
Thank you for offering them to someone instead of junking them.. I have a good friend by plant city flordia that may be able to store them.


What is scrap value on them?
I am currently in the process of getting quotes from local recyclers however as of this writing I do not have firm pricing. That’s one of the reasons I’m trying to identify these units as best as possible so that we have a good handle on the weight without actually taking them to the scrap yard. In talking to local crane people for lifting and transporting these units I’m being told that scrap prices for these are way down right now.

Unfortunately we will not be able to donate these to a good cause as we are held to “Best Value” contractually for all recyclables on this project however in the event some historical entity or collector is able to pay one-dollar over scrap value we will have to know the weight or at least come close.

We were able to get fairly valuable input from members of the department on this same Base who handles all the service and O & M on the current engines (Caterpillars) and generators which are located in another building. Two of these gentlemen actually helped maintain these very engines so they were very helpful with information such as fluid quantities which we must pump and vacate prior to removal.

They are telling us that these engines alone will likely weigh 40,000 Lbs. and the generators might go as much as an additional 40,000 Lbs making it a total of 40-Tons each. Again, nothing scientific or definitive on the weights but rather a best guess from men who have worked around these units.

Thanks for your comment & input Yellowlister.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinFlux View Post
The Fairbanks look like opposed piston 38D8's in 6 cylinder configuration.
When I took these photos the majority of the windows in this building was still boarded up and the power was off so with very little light in the room the Fairbanks are in the pics weren't so good.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Bezanson View Post
The Florida Flywheelers have a large collection of big engines on display at their shows near Ft. Meade area. They have a Snow engine that took many flatbed loads to get to the site. It took 4-6 years to mount and assemble. They have a web site and they are a dedicated bunch of guys. Their show is coming up near the end of Feb. Please don't scrap them unless you have no takers. Oh you will have to donate them since most groups have 501C3 tax exempt status and give a tax write off for feds. Ed B
Yes, I’ve been to the Flywheeler’s show in Ft. Meade some years back and needless to say it was more than impressive. Coincidentally that’s how I was made aware of this forum. A close friend of mine was at the Flywheeler’s show a week or two ago and happened to send me a photo of a restored Cushman scooter while he was there.

Since I had completely forgotten about the Flywheeler’s for a possible source of information for these engines I called my friend and asked him to inquire with vendors as to a good forum to post these inquiries on and wallah, here we are.

Unfortunately our hands are tied contractually with regard to donating these units (see reply to Yellowlister above).

Thanks for your comment and input Ed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Combustor View Post
Hello 2Phargone,
Is it possible that when DOD decommissioned these, that they removed and filed away the plates? A local contractor here acquired a large gen set as part of a demolition job, and the plate was missing. I asked an employee of the power authority about it and he looked and found it filed away in archives. A carton of beer guaranteed its safe return, so worth asking. Regards,
Combustor.
That was my assumption also however when we queried the department that handles the O & M & service on the existing backup power generators which includes two gentlemen that actually serviced these units they said no such policy was in-place. Their guess was more of a selfish assumption which they thought it was more likely one of the mechanics that retired after the units were taken out of service, peeled the tags off and took them with him.

Can’t imagine someone doing that for prosperity or ego or whatever the reason but then again every time I think I’ve heard it all I turn on the news and certain elements of this society manages to come up with another shocker.

LOL – Now that I’m seeing your path to success I’m thinking maybe I should’ve dangled a keg in front of the guys that have been so helpful with information eh?

Thanks Combuster for your valued input.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-28-2017, 11:14:15 PM
akuna akuna is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 2,820
Thanks: 220
Thanked 977 Times in 739 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Well at scrap prices in my yard, they may charge you to dispose of them for you. Not sure what scrap is in your area, last time I called it was 20 bucks a ton here.

The generators will be worth more, but still mixed scrap and not worth as much as copper.

Have to remember they will have the cost of hauling and cutting up to get any kind of price.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:16:38 AM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 1,810
Thanks: 3,227
Thanked 3,978 Times in 991 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

That is what I was thinking, after rigging, hauling and cutting up, one dollar over scrap price will be one dollar total.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-29-2017, 06:28:43 AM
Elden DuRand's Avatar
Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Port St. Joe, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,454
Thanks: 11,983
Thanked 7,083 Times in 2,774 Posts
Images: 11
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
Well at scrap prices in my yard, they may charge you to dispose of them for you. Not sure what scrap is in your area, last time I called it was 20 bucks a ton here.

The generators will be worth more, but still mixed scrap and not worth as much as copper.

Have to remember they will have the cost of hauling and cutting up to get any kind of price.
That's what the owners of the F-M gensets found out when they wanted to dispose of them in the powerhouse they wanted to convert to a cafeteria. They were quoted several tens of thousands of dollars by the scrapper to remove them without harming the building.

A friend and I got them a better deal. A monetary donation to the owners and proof that they were going to 501-C3's got them saved. The last I heard, they were all restored and running.

Here's the story in case you haven't seen it:
http://www.eldensengines.com/F-M%20P...20Station.html
__________________

Take care - Elden
http://www.eldensengines.com
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Elden DuRand For This Post:
  #10  
Old 01-29-2017, 11:17:13 AM
2Phargone 2Phargone is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Palm Harbor, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Wow that’s a great success story and my hat’s off to you, your friend and the team that made it happen.

This is the kind of idea I was looking for here however unfortunately time is not on my side with trying to go this route. I knew going in that I had a low percentage chance of this having a happy ending such as yours did as this sort of effort takes quite a bit of time especially when your depending on volunteers. For instance your example with three gensets, two 2-Cyl FM’s and one 5-Cyl FM appears to have taken just short of a year from concept to extricating them from the building.

It’s not all bad news in our case however because as long as we can show that getting these units to a historical end user is more monetarily beneficial then scrapping them out we wouldn’t have to depend on volunteers to prep them and extricate them from the building. Unless of course the recipient(s) of the units would prefer to participate in the removal preparation to be sure they have all the ancillary components necessary for assembly and start-up on their end which would be understandable.

I’m still looking for advice / suggestions on how we can identify these engines with the tags missing? Any ideas there would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again Elden DuRand for sharing your story of success. It gives me inspiration and hope that such a thing is still possible.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-29-2017, 09:01:15 PM
Elden DuRand's Avatar
Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Port St. Joe, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,454
Thanks: 11,983
Thanked 7,083 Times in 2,774 Posts
Images: 11
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

At first, we never figured that the gensets would be saved. Once we found that the owners really wanted to save them and three qualified clubs volunteered to to take them and restore them to running condition, the project sort of "growed like Topsy".

I was only the chronicler and wasn't able to travel to the island to get dirty.
__________________

Take care - Elden
http://www.eldensengines.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Elden DuRand For This Post:
  #12  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:17:43 AM
2Phargone 2Phargone is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Palm Harbor, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Your story and effort certainly underscores the old adage “Where there’s a will there’s a way”. Because of the time required the key to putting something like this together and making it work is in the first part of that adage and your comment “Once we found that the owners really wanted to save them”.

This building is on an active military base and while I’ve seen many instances where they’ve gone through great lengths to preserve items, buildings and structures of historical value I’ve also seen waste that boggles the mind.

Thanks again Elden for your valued input, I appreciate it!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 2Phargone For This Post:
  #13  
Old 02-01-2017, 02:29:29 PM
Jim McCracken Jim McCracken is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 439
Thanks: 1,085
Thanked 282 Times in 122 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

A great story ,thank you for submitting it.
I have an unrelated question: They spoke about those type engines being used on some older submarines.
How or where did they get the combustion air ?
Sorry if this is a dumb question but growing up in the Midwest we did not see many submarines .LOL
Thank you ,
Jim McCracken
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-01-2017, 02:43:00 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 3,330
Thanks: 4,158
Thanked 1,394 Times in 930 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

They had valves through the hull for intake and exhaust and only ran the engines on the surface, or , I believe, just below the surface, with snorkels. All other submerged operations were on battery power.

Somewhere on the Internet I found and downloaded the technical manuals for American WWII submarines. VERY fascinating reading!

They did indeed use FM opposed engines as well as GM 567 series engines, the latter proving to be better.

The submarines were the first thing I thought of when I first saw this post.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vanman For This Post:
  #15  
Old 02-06-2017, 12:34:41 PM
tdmidget tdmidget is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 150
Thanks: 39
Thanked 44 Times in 35 Posts
Default Re: Advice Needed Large Worthington & Fairbanks-Morse Diesel Generators

Fairbanks may be interested in the OP engines:
http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/reconditioned/
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Any interest in a Large Fairbanks Morse Diesel Peter Holmander Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines 14 08-14-2015 02:59:38 PM
Fairbanks-Morse Diesel ? ID help needed Hal Rosenquist Antique Gas Engine Discussion 3 10-23-2014 08:56:33 AM
Opinions/advice needed on large prime mover d3ejmz Antique Gas Engine Discussion 11 09-11-2006 05:33:44 PM
Large Fairbanks Morse N. John Merry Antique Engine Photos 8 09-03-2005 02:05:06 PM
Fairbanks Morse Generators Chris B. Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 5 03-21-2002 08:27:26 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:04:29 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277