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Fuels and Alternative Fuels Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Fuels and Alternative Fuels

E15 in newer cars


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  #1  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:41:36 PM
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John Hamilton John Hamilton is offline
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Default E15 in newer cars

The owners manuals for my 2010 Mustang GT and my wife's 2013 GMC Atria both say one tank of E15 voids the warranty. If E15 is legalized what do we do? Go to the airport and lie?
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:54:37 PM
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

E15 has been one of the most heavily tested fuels of all time. I have tried in in all my on road vehicles, including a 1995 Honda motorcycle with more than 110,000 miles.
1. It won't hurt your engine
2. E15 didn't exist when your manuals were written, so I doubt that it specifically calls out E15
3. Those cars are far out of warranty anyway.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:49:50 PM
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

His cars may be far out of warrenty but who does that leave to pay for the repairs due to the piss poor fuel?
I only hope they have to mark the pump well enough that i don't get it by mistake.
I wish it would go back to common sense, corn squeezin's for drankin', dino squeezin's for burnin'.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:30:28 PM
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

The gasoline part is the piss poor fuel. 83-84 octane swill. The ethanol is used to get the octane up and make it a legal and usable fuel.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:29:56 PM
ulgydog56 ulgydog56 is offline
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

yea and its great for gumming up anything with a carb on it......
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:47:46 PM
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

Ethanol is an ok fuel when it is fresh but here in Minnesota in a warm muggy summer it goes bad fast. When refining gasoline the finished product is a low octane fuel that won't burn very well so additives are added to boost the octane to usually around 89-90. The old additives worked great and the fuel usually lasted more than a couple weeks. But the powers that be decided it was killing us and we had to start burning ethanol instead. Now with ethanol as an additive there is one major flaw. Ethanol attracts moisture like a sponge!! So if there is any humidity it will phase separate very fast. You end up with a mixture of ethanol/water on the bottom and low octane fuel floating on top. This is why it is so corrosive. Add to this, ethanol uses more energy to produce than it creates. And the same goes with the money. (if it wasn't for the govt. subsidies there would be no ethanol) So it costs more to make than its worth, you have to burn large amounts of natural gas and use an unbelievable amount of water to make it, and it really is not a good fuel. Only our government would promote it!!
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:53:18 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Angry Re: E15 in newer cars

The gas companies cannot stop making E-10. As the laws are written, E-15 MUST not be used in off road vehicles, small engines (mowers weed wackers etc), and vehicles that are older than a certain date. YES - E-15 WILL damage older vehicles, even those made to accept E-10!I am certain that this alcoholixed fuel fiasco will end up ruining even more engines than E-10 has already. The government is not monitoring what goes into your fuel - you can't really all it gasoline any more.

It is bad enough that my son, personally has tested supposed E-10 fuel, straight from the pump, and found up to 27% alky in it! if E-10 is that bad, just think of what E-15 will be??? Not only that, who do you think is going to watch what fuel is going into your tanks? By law it will be illegal to dispense E-15 to small engines and off road machines (tractors, 4 wheelers etc), but who is to say what the gas companies will try? Not only will E-15 make for damage to older cars, you will also see another drop in fuel economy. Alcohol has less BTUs than gas. You are already seeing up to a 20% drop in fuel milage due to E-10. You can expect another 5 to 10% drop, when you buy E-15. You lose about 10% power due to the alky in E-10. Therefore, you have to use more throttle to maintain speed and power. That uses more fuel, so you end up with a net loss of about 20 for E-10. For E-15, it probably will be worse. Yes, the newest cars will stand up for it, but the fuel usage will not be any better than it is now.
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:33:59 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

OK, I'm calling the BS again.

E-10 will NOT cause a 20% drop in fuel economy, that's just plain dumb. If you replaced 10% of your gas with an inert, non-combustible replacement, it would only be a 10% drop. Ethanol is, however, a combustible fuel. As I recall, the basic math supports a 20% drop in economy when using e-85, but most "flexfuel" vehicles, the computer can compensate and make that a few % less. E-85 is cheaper, as well. IMHO the price difference doesn't fully offset the mileage loss, but I aint gonna fret about it.

When using e-10, the difference in mileage will be had to discern unless you're keeping mileage records and are driving in somewhat constant pattern.

For most everyone, e-10 or e-15 isn't going to make much difference, other then if you let it sit up, no doubt it doesn't age as well as 'straight gasoline'.

Wonder with all the mythical properties people give ethanol, why the same people would willingly pour it down their throat mystifies me.

I'm not getting into the political side of ethanol. Kinda don't care.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:24:37 PM
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuspinto View Post
E-10 will NOT cause a 20% drop in fuel economy, that's just plain dumb.
That depends on the vehicle. E10 fed into my 1988 Chevy Nova with its 2 barrel carburetor 4 cylinder engine would consistently see a 25% decrease in fuel economy. I could get nearly 40 MPG from it on straight gasoline, but it would go down to 30 MPG when given E10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuspinto View Post
As I recall, the basic math supports a 20% drop in economy when using e-85, but most "flexfuel" vehicles, the computer can compensate and make that a few % less. E-85 is cheaper, as well. IMHO the price difference doesn't fully offset the mileage loss, but I aint gonna fret about it.
This is exactly the case. E10 in a carburetor that had not been adjusted to work with it would result in a chronic lean burn condition, I would have to hold the throttle open further to compensate for the loss of power. Which decreased fuel economy and acceleration.

A modern EFI engine will automatically richen up the mixture and advance the timing slightly to compensate for E10 instead of normal gasoline, and the difference in fuel economy ends up being almost trivial. Some engines can get even better fuel economy on E10 than E0 because they can tune more aggressively without knocking.

I actually did put this to the test a few times. My commute is quite consistent and I rarely detour from it. I would fill the gas tank until the pump stopped by itself, then drive until it was empty, then return to that same station and pump to let it fill until it stopped and tell me how much was used. Meanwhile the trip odometer would tell me how far the car had gone between tanks. Like so I could get a fairly reliable MPG reading.

On my 1988 Chevy Nova, rest in pieces, it was a clear and consistent decrease from 40 MPG to 30 MPG when the car was given E10 instead of E0. There was also a noticeable performance change, the engine would lack power and run hotter due to the lean burn condition caused by the E10.

My current car, a 2015 Mitsubishi Mirage with a 3 cylinder EFI engine, the difference in MPG is too small to detect using this method. I could probably repeat the experiment a few times to pick up on a difference, but it is close enough for my use case to say it no longer matters.


"Flex Fuel" certified engines are designed to operate correctly on fuel mixtures containing up to 85% ethanol. You can even buy E-85 fuel for them, which would almost certainly yield an MPG decrease, but at significant cost savings during periods where gasoline prices are high. I've yet to own a vehicle with this feature, but much of what is on the road supports this.

My Hit & Miss engine likes E10 as well. Compared to the fuels of the 1920s, its premium high octane with a shot of moonshine in it. Just turn the mixer needle a little further open to keep mixture.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:31:50 AM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: E15 in newer cars

Your 1988 chevy nova/toyota corolla had an O2 sensor and mixture control, I tend to think if your mileage dropped that badly, that the system was malfunctioning.

Tho also, having owned a 1986 nova/corolla, you must of driven pretty carefully to get 40 out of it! EPA ratings were 33 highway.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymo...let_Nova.shtml
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