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Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start


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  #1  
Old 03-12-2017, 08:11:39 PM
DrCharles DrCharles is offline
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Question Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

My clean, low-hours 10.0 CCKAJ (pull-start) is a real bear to pull, especially in cold weather. So I'm interested in adding a starter motor to save my shoulders and arms. (Recharging the battery would be simple, just plug a battery charger into one of the 120v outlets on the box!)

There are a variety of operator and parts manuals available which are usually "close enough" but I never have found the exact one for this unit.

It seems that CCKA starters (and the bracket that mounts them to the base pan) are readily available. But there isn't any obvious place for an electric starter to go, and I didn't have time to remove the pull starter and fan housing to see where an electric starter might attach.

I'm beginning to think this particular model can't be retrofitted with an electric starter at all! Any ideas besides "sell it and get one with electric start"

thanks
Charles
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:38:54 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

If you "don't have time" to look inside the flywheel housing, you probably won't have the time to implement my idea. But if you get tired enough of pulling on it, consider a generator/starter unit as found on old Cub Cadet garden tractors. You could probably fit a V belt around the existing rope pulley well enough to crank it up. I have seen this retrofitted to many engines with a simple lever which tensions the belt and also depresses an old type starter button.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:39:58 PM
Vanman Vanman is online now
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Being a revolving armature generator, you might get away with applying 12 volts directly to the commutator brushes. You would not have the benefit of the series winding that exciter cranked sets have, but I have heard of others doing this with success. The worst case would be that you need to help it over the first compression stroke, but after that it ought to spin over just fine like that.

Keith
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:54:33 PM
DrCharles DrCharles is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

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Originally Posted by Wayne 440 View Post
If you "don't have time" to look inside the flywheel housing, you probably won't have the time to implement my idea.
That's rather harsh... it's been a busy weekend. I didn't mean that I would never have the time!

Quote:
But if you get tired enough of pulling on it, consider a generator/starter unit as found on old Cub Cadet garden tractors. You could probably fit a V belt around the existing rope pulley well enough to crank it up. I have seen this retrofitted to many engines with a simple lever which tensions the belt and also depresses an old type starter button.
Good idea, thanks... but the rope sheave is inside the sheet metal housing that is required to direct cooling air across the cylinder heads. Also the generator is mounted on the Onan "wheelbarrow" cart and that kind of rig would be hard to fit and remain portable.

Quote:
Being a revolving armature generator, you might get away with applying 12 volts directly to the commutator brushes. You would not have the benefit of the series winding that exciter cranked sets have, but I have heard of others doing this with success. The worst case would be that you need to help it over the first compression stroke, but after that it ought to spin over just fine like that.
Well, worst case is that I fry a perfectly good 10 kw generator head
I'll do some searching for this. That 16 hp engine takes a fair bit of torque to turn it over compression...
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:19:45 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Hmm, maybe you could make a fixture that engages the notches in the rope pulley (or maybe the flywheel nut) and fits in a 1/2" cordless drill. Along the lines of an Indy car starter.
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:31:04 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is online now
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Having cranked one over with a drill, that's pretty harsh. Even a 1/2 drill is working it's rump off and you're hanging on for dear life.

In theory, if you had power for a drill, you wouldn't need the gen. I can say a dewalt 18v cordless drill does NOT like this kind of abuse. It's getting very hot within seconds.

The standard starter bolts to the oil pan underneath the right hand cylinder head, and engages teeth on the flywheel. If you have flywheel teeth and/or holes in the pan, who knows. I think at most you would need a toothy flywheel, a bolty oil pan, a cranky starter, and the fan shroud to clear it all.
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:43:23 PM
DrCharles DrCharles is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

My 1/2" drill motor won't do me much good, since the only way I'd be firing up this generator is if the power's out!

I could swear the flywheel is already toothy but will need to look again. As I get older I start to experience CRS

The illustrations on the CCK manual for units with a starter do show a fan shroud that has a circular relief in the lower right corner, now that you mention it... might be hard to find one of those, although I could do some sheet metal work if needed.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:08:51 PM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

I own a 1957 welder with a pull start cck. This machine was always a real bear to start even 30 years ago. The first step to improve it was to disconnect the points from the mag under the flywheel and hook the points up to a 12 volt battery and rather than using the onan coil, hooked up 2 automotive 12 volt coils, 1 to each cly. Started a lot nicer because now it had a hotter spark right away without spinning it over as fast. Fast forward another 25 years, and older yet. Rigged up a spark module from a ford pu, 1992 and a double coil from some kind of car. The points worked as a trigger for the module. All I had to do was disconnect the condensor. Now on a cold day, turn on the fuel, prime the fuel pump, turn it over slowly twice with the power off, bring it up to the compression stroke, turn on 12 volt power, and snap the rope and there she goes. I have the parts to convert it to electric start someday,just no need yet. Dan
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:24:41 PM
David C David C is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

If you were closer to Texas, I have a generator end off of a 10.0CCKB that I would make you a deal on. I used the engine on a 5.0CCK that had an engine that had water damage.

David C.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:45:17 PM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

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If you were closer to Texas, I have a generator end off of a 10.0CCKB that I would make you a deal on.
Is that an exciter-start type? What's it weigh?
I have a FedEx shipping account and can often get decent rates...
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:33:01 PM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Well, a ten kW generator has a lot of thermal mass, so it would never fry instantly.

If it doesn't turn over, you would immediately disconnect the battery. If it does turn over, the engine will start long before the generator would overheat.

It would be interesting to know if the armature is a different part number than that of one from an exciter cranked set though.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:55:45 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is online now
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Exciter crank has an entirely different set of heavy windings on a set of commutators. Two sets of brushes.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:48:29 AM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

I'd imagine that even the manual start sets have an exciter, otherwise it would have to be excited via a rectifier, but I'm not as familiar with Onans. So the question is whether or not they bothered making a special armature with lighter exciter windings for the manual start sets. I'll bet they didn't.

On the Kohlers I collect, the manual start (hand crank) and electric start (exciter crank) sets use the same armature. On some of the manual Kohlers, even the series winding is present, with it's lead merely taped off!

I'm only *assuming* that the Onan generator on a manual start set does not have a series winding. But maybe, just like the Kohler, it's just sitting there ready to go!

Have to take the covers off and take a look, and see what's there. Might just be surprised.

Keith
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:25:46 AM
Handyhiker1 Handyhiker1 is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

On my 5.0cck contractor model, it is pull start also but it does have the brushes for the electric start just like my 5.0cck that is exciter cranked. I have thought about trying to hook it up to make it electric start.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:53:45 AM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

I believe the pull start models. All had the start side on the rotor. Just didn't use it. Because pull start was supposed to be used as contractor models. Where a battery would just be in the way.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:29:16 AM
gnucklehead gnucklehead is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Would need to have a shunt and a series field winding for exciter cranking

Edit: found your old thread: It is a 3600RPM round head..
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?p=722239

Last edited by gnucklehead; 03-13-2017 at 11:02:43 AM.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:05:29 PM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Well, that's the big question- is the series winding truly *necessary*. I have heard of people successfully using a shunt wound exciter. Like I said before, it may need a bit of help over the first compression stroke.
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:44:27 PM
David C David C is offline
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCharles View Post
Is that an exciter-start type? What's it weigh?
I have a FedEx shipping account and can often get decent rates...
The parts are at the shop and I will have to take a scale that will go high enough to handle the weight. I would guess the armature is around 50-60 pounds and the stator is probably at least a 100 pounds. I can get some pictures of all of the internals and you can compare them to what you have. You might be lucky and have all of the windings to make it electric start. I usually make it to the shop on weekends.

David C.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:00:59 PM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Wow... I didn't know the generator head itself weighed that much! I know my entire generator is listed at 400 lbs (and when moving it on its 2-wheel cart I believe that) but I assumed most of that was cast-iron engine.

The earlier discussion (about possibly all the armatures being the same) certainly got my attention. I'm definitely interested in seeing what yours looks like. When I get a chance I'll pull the dust cover again and look closely at the brush area. Maybe I'll get lucky
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:31:29 PM
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Default Re: Onan 10.0CCKAJ want to convert to electric start

Doc, Best way, in my opinion, is to look on the parts books for your set and the parts book for the equivalent set like yours but electric start. Check to see if the rotor/armature and stator are the same part numbers.
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