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FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A


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  #21  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:23:03 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

Try shorting out the low oil pressure switch to ground, and or the high coolant temp switch. You will have to wait out a delay while you continuously ground them..."usually" around 12~16 seconds before shutdown is activated. See if you get the same symptom. (lamp, but no shutdown)

If so, board function is working, but the alarm relay is shot. May be able to source one from DigiKey or Mouser, or the like if that's the case. (It's that relay on the engine board on the door that turns the light on with a normally open contact, and is supposed to break power to K12 with the normally closed contact. If lamp is working, the normally closed contact may be fused shut. (I would have to presume that the K12 relay is not dropping out when the fault light comes on, since it continues to run.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:14:19 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

HI
Thanks
When I shorted out the oil pressure switch for 20 seconds, the low oil pressure light was on. Generator was still running, i barely touched the engine control board and the engine was cutting in and out. if I touch the k3 relay then it shuts down. I cleaned the edge contacts and that made no difference.

K3 is HB1E-DC24V.....board itself said 5 lamp 12V?
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:05:52 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

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HI
Thanks
When I shorted out the oil pressure switch for 20 seconds, the low oil pressure light was on. Generator was still running, i barely touched the engine control board and the engine was cutting in and out. if I touch the k3 relay then it shuts down. I cleaned the edge contacts and that made no difference.

K3 is HB1E-DC24V.....board itself said 5 lamp 12V?
If you have a board that might be bad, If you have a part number for the board, let me know as I have an Onan transfer switch with boards in it that the switch is no good to me. If one fits, it's yours for the postage.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:00:11 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

HB1E-DC24V ?? 24 volt relay? You do have a 12 VDC system, don't you?

What engine board part # do you have?

12VDC= 300-0681 (5 Light)
24VDC= 300-0682 (5 Light)

Google HB1E-DC12V. Take your pick. Easy solder-out/solder-in job.

http://www.masterelectronics.com/pan...tml?p=10554557
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Last edited by EricWood; 03-15-2017 at 06:12:08 PM. Reason: Retracted my previous screw up
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:09:49 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

I have a 12 volt system. The board itself is printed "Engine control monitor (5 light 12v)"
Number on the board is 332-2595 f
parts book shows 300-0681
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:13:49 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

gjinc,

The white label on the end of the board is the actual part number, and yours is a 300-0682...that is a 24 volt board. Somebody previously stuck the wrong board in that unit. Low power relays may pick up on half voltage, may not. That would account for inconsistent/flaky responses from that board. (I know the board is silk screened with "12V", but the decal says its a 24 volt model, and most of the relays on that board in your picture are 24 volt.
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:16:34 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

well that sucks
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:18:37 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

why would have 12v printed on the board..
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:30:21 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

Flightsystems has a universal 12/24VDC replacement for that board, that runs $300. There are other options for that kind of money (and upwards) that involve controls upgrade, but you need the desire/ability to knowledgeably perform such an upfit that will safely integrate the engine to the controller, along with AC voltage sensing, potential voltage regulation upgrade, and fabrication that comes with it.

Your easiest option, given the time and effort and expense you already have in to your set up, is to go with the Flightsystems board.

Eric

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why would have 12v printed on the board..
Not sure....same board, just different resistors and relays, and manufacturer stacked wrong boards on the assembly line?

(the two boards are very similar side-by-side.)
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:47:00 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

Thanks, You answered my next question. Relays are pretty cheap to replace with 12v, too bad it has different resistors. It will be a while before I can get a new board.
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  #31  
Old 03-15-2017, 07:05:00 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

I am wondering if it is possible to unsolder the 24V relays and solder in some 12v ones. You would have to be fairly competent with a soldering iron or have a buddy who is an electronics tech. Might be worth a shot if that is the main difference. If all the resistors do is to limit coil current then they may not make a huge difference. For $300 I would give it a try. Cheers Dan
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:20:32 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

Check the voltage label on those relays. If they are 24 volt and what look like 5 pin, I can take some out of the board I have and you can replace them. Do you have ANY transformers in the control box that would take an 120 Volts AC source and drop it to 24 Volts AC? Here is an outfit that I found online that does rebuilds. $170 exchange. They might be able to tell you per your generator model which board you need. But, if you have no transformers and the rest of the controls are 12 volt then as Eric said, someone must have put the wrong board in. http://www.generatorpanels.com/300-0681.asp
Their picture of the 300-0682 board looks different than the picture of yours. They might do an "Odd" exchange, in other words, exchange your 24 volt board for a 12 volt board.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:09:17 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

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There are other options for that kind of money (and upwards) that involve controls upgrade, but you need the desire/ability to knowledgeably perform such an upfit that will safely integrate the engine to the controller, along with AC voltage sensing, potential voltage regulation upgrade, and fabrication that comes with it.

Eric
Sir, you have my curiously, what do you have in mind??
Thank You
Greg
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:49:41 AM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

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Sir, you have my curiously, what do you have in mind??
Thank You
Greg
A basic route to upgrade the engine controls-only, would be to use something such as the DynaGen ES52: http://www.dynagen.ca/es52-auto-start-engine-controller

The ES52 is a discrete device that isn't too difficult to wire in, following the drawings and instructions in the documentation. This device will work with your existing low oil pressure/high coolant temperature switches. Other than sorting out the wiring on an Onan print for tie-in points, and merging them with the ES52 connection drawing, is that a mag pick-up (MPU) will need to be installed over the flywheel teeth, on the flywheel housing.

A higher tech solution (if that's what one desires) is something like the DeepSea 6110 MK II. Would need a new control cabinet to install this in, or have a hinged door fabricated for your existing box. These are more complex to install, due to an increased requirement of electrical/controls aptitude and understanding AC voltage monitoring/protective functions. You will need to get correct sending units for engine monitoring/protection, and the AC voltage points would need to be tied in as well, for monitoring and protection. The software for this device is a free download, and you can upload parameters to the controller with a standard USB printer cable. With the project scale of this option, I would probably get rid of the existing voltage regulation system as well, and put in a third-party knock-off of an SX-460 voltage regulator, or something similarly priced.

https://www.deepseaplc.com/genset/ma...s/dse6110-mkii

All this being said, I would suggest if you were going to seriously consider an alternative solution to replacing the 24VDC engine card you have, then the ES52 would be the easiest option overall. And as always, if at anytime you don't feel comfortable/aren't sure about something, ask.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:12:16 AM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

The ES52 does not need a MPU; it can use AC output as its speed sensing so it is ideal for situations like this.
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  #36  
Old 03-19-2017, 12:24:46 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

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The ES52 does not need a MPU; it can use AC output as its speed sensing so it is ideal for situations like this.
I see that now, thanks. Direct input as well, which is better than the old ECU brand versions of the same thing, which worked off AC voltage on select models, but had to be transformed down to 12~15 volts.
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:44:05 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

I like the ES52, seems like a straight forward upgrade. One place has the GSC300, claims to be the next model.
http://www.nooutage.com/gsc300.htm

The DeepSea 6110 MK II looks interesting.

"I would probably get rid of the existing voltage regulation system as well, and put in a third-party knock-off of an SX-460 voltage regulator, or something similarly priced. "
You would use the SX-460 in place of the VR-21

http://www.dynagen.ca/gsc300-digital-genset-controller
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:55:57 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

The GSC300 is being deprecated in favor of the TG350 I believe.

They have been discouraging use of the GSC300 for quite a few years now.

But I see no reason to pay for all the added features and computer configuration when the ES52 will do it with screw adjustments and DIP switches. Plus it has the relays you need already on the board.
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:01:22 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

The only reason I brought up the GSC300 because I can get for less than the ES52. However in reading about the GSC300, 1 place stated that you have to have a programming cable,GSC300-USB-PGMR, which is about 250 bucks.
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:10:55 PM
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Default Re: FAIL 1st power outage with Onan 45 OEM-15r 9296C and OTOCA 5566643 Spec A

Yes the TG350 programs through a standard USB cable while the 300 has its own programmer which seems very kludgey.

But after having run through all these options I have decided that the ES52 is best for 95% of applications unless you need some special feature.
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