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Lister help


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  #1  
Old 01-30-2019, 04:47:27 AM
RustyNumbat RustyNumbat is offline
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Default Lister help

Hello, today I admit to my great deep shame that I (and MH55k) own a Lister engine.

Anyway now that's out of the way, how can I attach the spark lead to the bit-what-makes-electric? There was a plastic box on top of it with a metal tongue touching the contact when I got it, but the thing fell apart in very short order. Should I solder a wire directly on, or will I need to make some structural contact like it was originally?

Here's a photo
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2019, 04:59:07 AM
locknut locknut is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Hi,
I think that the first thing you should do is to check that the coil is a good one,if it isnt then you will either need a coil rewind or a new coil,if the coil is good then you can carefully - and I stress carefully( or else you can damage the very fine coil wires) - solder a wire onto the 'button', or make up a replacement cap and contact.
Good luck!
Kev.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2019, 05:07:44 AM
rodneyt rodneyt is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

plastic gets old too soon, have you used up all the wood? a pretty piece of sheoak will give it local character!
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2019, 05:34:47 AM
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E27N E27N is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

That an lucas RS1 or a SR1 maggy numbat? I prolly have the cap on the shelf as well as everything else it needs ( John was sposed to tell me ages ago what he needed to get it going )
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:09:14 AM
RustyNumbat RustyNumbat is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Quote:
Originally Posted by E27N View Post
That an lucas RS1 or a SR1 maggy numbat?
Yes sir, those sure are numbers and letters I'll post a photo tomorrow! I think I'll give a go at fixing the wire in place then soldering gently to the contact point in the meanwhile
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:26:30 AM
ozfarm ozfarm is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

lucas RS1

wind it over and see if it has spark

stick your finger on it, if you cant solder
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2019, 09:35:11 AM
RustyNumbat RustyNumbat is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Well me and the apprentice stuck the lead on with some leccy tape and wound her over this evening, got it running eventually. Ran a load of flame out the exhaust which was pretty in the dark, but suggests we have fuel/valve/ignition issues.

Then we went to start it 20 minutes later, it'd catch and get to some speed but then seemingly fire on the wrong stroke and kill itself instantly... Will have to bother johnny about it!
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:16:47 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Congratulations on acquiring a great engine. Probably one of the best engines ever built.

Merv.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:32:57 AM
RustyNumbat RustyNumbat is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Are these things a chain drive for the spark timing? MH55k suggested if it is then perhaps the chain slipped a section or something, which would explain why it is seemingly igniting entirely wrong and stopping dead when putting on some speed...
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2019, 03:22:53 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

What model of Lister is it? The Lucus mag is normally reliable, usually chain driven and the sprocket is usually keyed to the mag. If it had slipped it would not start again. You may need to check the condenser. They are easy to set the timing.
Merv.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:10:34 PM
karragullengine karragullengine is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

If it is a lister a or b you need to make sure the valves are timed right to start with. From memory the cog on the mag is tapered not keyed so you loosen to set timing, very easy to do.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:17:40 PM
RustyNumbat RustyNumbat is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Hmmm, I'll have to get into it and find out. The fact it ran just fine for a few minutes the first time, then the second time it would start up okay. It's just once it put on some speed then all of a sudden it would seemingly fire on the up stroke or something and violently stop itself.... Like the mixture is getting set off as soon as it enters the cylinder or something.
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:46:14 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Recheck the timing on the magneto it might be possible that while running the timing moved. I had this happen on a SR1 Lucas which took me a while to work out what happened.
Once happy with the timing then check you have spark and go from there. If no spark then we need to dig deeper like condensor and/or coil. Evgen dirty or wrongly adjusted points can cause a fail. Back to basics first then move forward.
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:30:13 PM
rodneyt rodneyt is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

I agree, when firing up a long unused motor, always good to check points first. points gap directly affects timing, as the cam follower wears, timing will become retarded. a little wear is fine, but a lot and you wonder why you cant get revs or power.
if you reset timing first, then fix points gap, it will then be too advanced and you risk breaking arm etc from backfire, so always clean and set points to spec as first step.
if you want a slightly retarded timing for safety and easy starting, then actually set the timing retarded after getting the points right.

setting the points gap also affects the internal timing of the maggy, so the correct points gap will also help the maggy give its best spark.

had crazy experience helping a local collector time a Lister with chain drive maggy a few years ago, he couldnt figure out why sometimes it would start, others not. sometimes backfire, sometimes start perfect,
always if it would start, it would never keep running.

i could not see any major problem, but it wouldn't run for me either.
eventually i checked the cogs, mismatched teeth count!
so every gear rev would change timing by 1 tooth.
so i asked had he been changing gears or was those the original gears?
"oh it never had a maggy, so i just tried out a few from my maggy collection, that worked best and the gear fitted the chain"

this guy had plenty of motors experience, hard to think he overlooked checking gears were a correct match. only excuse is they were very similar size, it was not immediately obvious they were different.
we soon found a correct gear which fitted that maggy and got the engine running nice.

next observation, which might be in an owners manual, ive never looked so dont know,
that particular gear also had a finely splined hub, so the gear could be removed from the hub. i had never seen that before so had to examine it closely to figure why would anybody go to such trouble?? eventually it twigged maybe it was a Vernier system. indeed, the splines count was 1 different to the teeth count, which allows fine tuning of timing. i expect there is detailed info about all that in other threads. i have no idea what motor or maggy that gear originally belonged to. cheers Rod.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:20:17 PM
Scotty 2 Scotty 2 is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneyt View Post

next observation, which might be in an owners manual, ive never looked so dont know, that particular gear also had a finely splined hub, so the gear could be removed from the hub. i had never seen that before so had to examine it closely to figure why would anybody go to such trouble?? eventually it twigged maybe it was a Vernier system. indeed, the splines count was 1 different to the teeth count, which allows fine tuning of timing. i expect there is detailed info about all that in other threads. i have no idea what motor or maggy that gear originally belonged to.
Original Lister design for fine adjustment of timing

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Old 02-02-2019, 01:38:16 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Apparently the above only works when you have the right tooth count
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:07:08 AM
RustyNumbat RustyNumbat is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Oh dear, look what I found for $50 at a clearing sale today....




Any information at all anyone has will be helpful, what I need to check on the thing before running it. Don't even know what the model or year is. The oil is lovely and black and it cranks okay but other than that I have no idea what wants looking over on it!

I wouldn't mind decoupling the generator too, not sure how to check a genny over for faults....

It'll go nicely with the old Lister as an example of new(relatively speaking) and old...
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:51:57 AM
karragullengine karragullengine is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

Possibly an tr1. Good engines. Id just change the oil, clean fuel/air system out and should crank right up. If you notice the oil level increasing it can be diesel as the diesel lines run inside the rocker cover and can spring a leak. Although uncommon worth remembering.

Last edited by karragullengine; 02-03-2019 at 06:23:32 AM.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:44:08 AM
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Default Re: Lister help

Post a pic of the plate above the manifold Numbat. It will give us the model and the year of manufacture.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:48:00 AM
rodneyt rodneyt is offline
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Default Re: Lister help

50? =bargain, its amazing a scrappy didn't outbid you!
its even got paint, that paint is worth more than that.
yes please, ID plates are there to be used.

as for gears:
"Apparently the above only works when you have the right tooth count"

well, yeah - nah.

everything will only work when it is right,
when it does not work we know something is wrong,
even when we don't know what.
the crazy thing is that often things can be 'fixed' so a machine works,
even when it is not 100% right.

I actually do not understand your question,
but it might help to try to explain what is right.

'the right tooth count' is vague and ambiguous and has multiple possible meanings.

for the purpose of restoring a motor to original factory product,
right = correct,
correct is defined by the parts list.

for the purpose of getting a motor running, and in the context of maggy drives,
right and correct, is any pair of gears with a ratio which keeps the ignition timing at the set place.

such ratios are usually thought of being 1:1, 1:2, and 2:1, depending on the engine design variables of where the ignition is driven from, ie crankshaft or camshaft, and whether there is allowed or planned a 'lazy' spark at the 'off' cycle.
Therefore 'correct teeth' can be any pair of gears with exactly same number of teeth, and any pair of gears where one gear has exactly double the number of teeth as the other.

The important thing is the timing itself, not the number of teeth on a gear.
The number of teeth on a gear is only important with relation to the other gear it is connected to.

actually that is only true as a 'simple' statement, and for chain connected gears,
a more complete truth is:

The number of teeth on a driving power input gear is only important with relation to the final power output driven gear. any intermediate transfer gears can be of any teeth number.

cheers Rod.
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