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Drag Saw Collectors Water cooled drag saws; Hercules, Ottawa, Wade, Vaughan, Witte, Timberwolf and Multnomah

Drag Saw Collectors

Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw


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  #1  
Old 09-29-2015, 03:13:49 PM
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Default Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

So, evidently its impossible for me to work on one project at a time so I started up another project.

My current list of active projects:

3 Hp Novo
10 Hp Fairbanks Morse Z (I have an update on this project but need to resize the photos yet)
5 Hp Hercules

and now, I am starting work on a 4 Hp Ottawa drag saw.

The Novo is stalled because I am having troubles repairing a gear.
The 10 Hp Fairbanks is semi-stalled because I cant figure out how to get the head off. I need to fabricate some tools for this one.
The 5 hp Hercules is stalled because I couldn't get the piston out and am having a friend with a press work on it.

So here is the story on the latest addition to my collection. Going to mention what I paid for it cause its part of the story so I apologies if you don't like hearing the numbers.

Anyway, I went to a auction a while back and wasn't really planning to bring anything 'big' home with me but as with any auction, sometimes

you just cant say no to a 'bargain'

The auctioneer had just finished up selling off all the restored engines, all of which had sold pretty low, (including a little Maytag vertical for $200) and the people already started thinning out.

After a bunch of parts boxes sold, the bidding switched over to the log\drag saws. There were 3 or 4 restored and operational Wade\Vaughn style saws, a junker Ward and a Ottawa. The Ottawa was first in line but the auctioneer skipped it and sold off all the other style saws.

Then he sold some other stuff and finally went back to the Ottawa.


Did the typical thing and started higher, $300 I think. No bidders, dropped price, no bidders, dropped price, no bidders. I swear he was getting irritated, no one seemed to be even paying attention.

"Ok, I will throw in the other saw" he said gesturing toward a beat to hell parts Ward drag saw that he had also skipped when selling the other stuff. Still no bidders.

"Come on, can I get $50 for the pair" and my arm sort of twitched half heartedly

"SOLD... to 341" he had memorized my number because I had bought a number of small things already.

I really think was some sick automatic-reflex that caused the twitch. My subconcious knew if the price went down to $20, someone else would bid and then its a pissing match and the price would run up over $100 or so. It had to be worth $50 right?

So, there I was with my log saw wondering what the hell I was going to do with it because I had bought to much crap as it was.

Luckily, I good friend was there with a trailer and he had just enough room to squeeze my 2 drag saws. In a side note, the guys loading stuff at this auction ... were not the most experienced at this sort of thing. When they loaded the Ottawa, they wrapped a chain around a small metal cross piece that was part of the spikes. They dangled it off the rusting away tiny metal cross piece and the end of the wood beams.

If you check out the photo, its pretty clear that the wood beams are rotting away. I am still amazed it made it on the trailer in 1 piece.

Even worse, as they were loading the other saw, they didn't get the chains secured and they dropped it. Bounced off the end of the trailer and crashed onto the ground. They stood there for a second staring at it like 'why is it on the ground and not dangling from the tractor bucket' then hooked it back up like nothing happened and put it on the trailer. Awesome.

Anyway, my friend hauled the engine home and I went and picked it of the next weekend.

Here it is just after I unloaded it out of the truck.



As I looked it over, I was thinking it really looked fairly complete to me. Everything was stuck but I kind of expected that.

The wheels look to be original and can pivot to be parallel to the log.


Has a nice tag


I was still trying to figure out why no one wanted to bid on it.

I started squirting some oil on some assorted parts and grabbed my monkey wrench to see if the saw mechanism could be freed up.



It loosened right up.

Well that was cool. At this point I was pretty happy. Up to this point I was convinced it was going to be a parts engine because no one seemed to want it.

It was really starting to look like it was a keeper.
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2015, 03:42:10 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

i wish i had all the saw gearing for mine ive got the hitmiss version and most of a throttled version
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:50:30 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

That was one of the things that surprised me about his engine and saw. It has most of its parts. Its also a little earlier than many I have heard mention. Mid to Late 20s I am guessing.

I think one of the potential problems with the engine that might have scared people off is what was in the water hopper. It looked like something may have been living in it.



There were some good things in the hopper too. This hook for example, which I have been told is part of the original equipment and used to secure the saw to the log


Also found an oiler buried in the crud. It had been pretty much completely covered in the crap


As I looked it over, I decided to start taking things apart. First thing that I took off was the head. It came off easy. After that, I took off the magneto. I was expecting it to be stuck and rusted. Nope, the arm that pulls the mag armatur town was stuck but the mag was free and in pretty good shape, even had the lower cover.



I measured the resistance across the 2 coils and it was right at 10K. Thats a little higher than the ones I have tested before but think thats ok. I think ones I have tested previously were like 8k to 9.5k. Will replace the condensor and have the magnets recharged and see if it works.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:07:13 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

Been a doing a little work on this engine.

I removed everything that was easy to remove. Governor, the lobes that actuate the intake and exhaust levers, mag bracket and all the various bearing caps.

After removing all that stuff, I was able to rotate the flywheel. With the head being off, it seemed like a good opportunity to check out how stuck the piston was. There are varying degrees of 'stuck' ranging from 'not really stuck but not easily moved' to 'stuck bigger n shit go visit friend with 50-ton press'. This didnt look very bad so I wandered over to the wood pile and picked out a log that was about the correct size and had a nice square looking end. Trimmed to fit using an axe and place it in the cylinder. 1st smack with a sledge - nothing. 2nd smack - not sure, might have moved a bit. 3rd smack - definetly some movement. Added some more lubricant and gave it 1 more smack. Piston moved back about an inch so I connected it back to the crank shaft and was able to move it buy turning the flywheel. Some more lubricant and spinning of the flywheel and it had it was moving freely. Guess this was one of the 'not really that stuck'.

I went ahead and removed the piston. The bore doesnt look bad. Cant feel any groves



Next thing I wanted to do is remove the flywheels. Took me a while to figure it out but there happens to be a threaded pin on the gear side that is screwed into the base. That pin extends out from the side of the base and passes through a bracket thing that goes around the crank shaft. This means that the pin effectively holds the crank shaft down preventing it from being removed. I dinked around with about everything I could but in the end, it really didnt look like the flywheels were coming off until after I pulled the big gear off.



I messed around with the big gear for quite a while and it finally took a splitter and multiple sizes of crescent wrenches to get it off.



After removing the big gear, I was able to remove the smaller gear on the crank shaft which allowed me to take the clutch apart and to finally slide off the piece that was causing all the problems. Did have a small bit of bad news, as I pulled the small gear off, the lever for engaging the gear fell apart into 2 pieces. Looks like it has been broken for a while. Will have to braze that up.

Anyway, was able to get the flywheel \ gear off.



I also ended up removing the rotting wooden frame during this process as well
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:56:18 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

After removing everything that could be removed, I decided to dump soume of the crap thats in the hopper out. Not sure how all this crap ended up in there but there was a lot of it.



Didnt find any more treasures in there either. Hoping for a petcock or something but just crap.

Now that the engine was completely apart, it was easier to give it a little closer going over. Had my first unleasant surprise when I flipped it over to check the bottom of the hopper for a crack. I suspected there was one but it had been difficult for me to get down there and check it out. Cleaned off the dirt and sure enough, there was a fair sized grack down the casting line and through the drain. The good news is that the crack didnt go all the way forward or all the way back. I shouldnt be surprised considering all the crap that was in the hopper. Probably collected some moisture in the crap that froze in the winter and cracked it out.



There is always the question of what to do when you find something like this. I have been through it a number of times. First things first though, I want to make sure I do something to prevent it from creeping further. Everyone I have talked to about it agree that the first thing to do is locate each end of the crack and drill a hole. In order to make sure I locate the correct spot, I needed to clean the cack off.



Then I drilled a hole at each end of the crack to prevent it from getting worse.



Now its time to figure out what to do with the crack. There are MANY opinions on this. Some guys will braze it, some guys will arc weld it 1 inch at a time and then peen it till it cools, some might even use metal stitching. I did consider brazing and I have done it before on a Fairbanks Morse ZD. The real problem is that in order for it to be a good hold with brazing, you have to get the area you are working on up over 1100F in temp in order to get the filler to flow and wick down into the crack. Chances are, it would be fine but getting old engines that hot can cause problems. Temp differences and cause stress and cause stress and lead to problmes which can include other cracks. The only way to prevent that is to heat the whole dang thing up and I am not going to do that. You also have to clean the crap out of it.

There is another solution that some guys really frown upon and that is using a good epoxy based filler \ bonding substance. Products like JB Weld and Devcon can bond fairly well and they are strong. Nothing like a well brazed crack but more than adequite for an area like this where there is little stress. So thats what I am going to do. I am going to use some wear resistant Devcon which has about the strongest tensile strength of any of the epoxy based options. THe Devcon WR has a stated tensile strength of 4300 psi. JB Weld is 3960 or something like that.

So, to prepare for the expoy, the first thing to do is U out the crack. This is what its looking like after I spent a fair amount of time working on it. Need to clean up a bit yet.



---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

Wanted to share another photo I took while cleaning it up after working on the crack.

Not going to be painting this engine. Its got enough old paint to leave it just as it is.

I decided to start wiping it down with some WD-40 and I think it looks pretty good.

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Old 10-15-2015, 11:58:17 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

I was planning to slightly oversize the threaded hole where the drain is screwed in. I have already drilled out the piece of pipe that was in there and run a tap through it multiple times. Was going to coat the threads of male - male piece and screw it in then screw a female - female piece over the exposed threads and the screw a petcock into that. Hoping this will limit any spreading force.

Have no idea how water resistant Devcon is. Will have to look into that.
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:38:31 AM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

MarineTex will definitely ignore water. It's much like JBWeld but 'better'. Then there is the stuff being used over in the Crossley thread; I can't think of the name at the moment.
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:00:30 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

Made A little bit of progress over Thanksgiving. Read the instructions on Devcon and remembered that epoxys like JB Weld and Devcon work better when applied to a warm surface so I set up a space heater in the garage pointing directly on the engine the night before I attempted the repair.

The next day when I went out to check, the engine was warm to the touch so I mixed up some Devcon and started filling. First thing I did was smear the threads of the insert I am placing in the water train hole and screwed it into place. Then I build up the area all long the crack and around the little nub that has the water drain hole. Tried to smooth it out the best I could. After getting all the devcon gooped on, I was done for the day. I made sure the heater was pointing at the engine before going in.

The next day I used a fairly course hand file to shape the devcon and touch up the edges. When I was done, this is what it looked like



After cleaning it up, I went and checked my spray paint selection and found a can of rustolium hunter green and decided to spray that on and see out that looked. Turns out it looked like shit. Way too bright of a green.

So, I reached into the base of my next project (3hp Novo) and pulled out a hand full of whatever crud was layered thick in the bottom. The crap I found looked like someone had been tossing thier used tobacco dips into the base my novo and then covered with nasty old oil and grease. So I smeared that on with the still wet paint to darken it up a bit and blend it in with the pre-existing paint.

Doesnt look great but doesnt look all that bad either.



The next thing I started work on was the replacement piston rings. I have to notch the rings so they can be put into place. The piston has a little key in the ring grooves that I assume is to keep the rings in place. I got 2 rings notched and installed before calling it quits. 2 more rings and then I need to go find some ash timbers for the replacement frame. Luckly, there is a place up in Eagle Id called High Desert Hardwood that has a couple perfect timbers. Expensive though, going to cost about $40 per timber.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:44:39 PM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

just joined and have a ottowa 5 hp dragsaw also. Mine isn't as cruddy and the piston moves all on its own.
I'll start a build thread as soon as I get it out of the truck.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:54:17 AM
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Default Re: Preservation Log: 4 hp Ottawa Log Saw

you can take a piece of 80 grit sand paper, grit side down, tap it with a small hammer to texture the epoxy. makes it look like cast
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