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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant


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  #1  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:34:49 PM
mschreiber mschreiber is online now
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Default Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Wagner 1/2hp repulsion induction motor. This came as basket case, The plug was cut off going to the switch so I put a 220 plug on it that matches my 220 extension cord. Using 220 it started and runs fine but in the wrong direction, so looking at a 2017 post here i figured how to get it running the right direction.

My question is how do I know if motor leads are set 220 and not 110? Of course two go to the switch and the other two are wire nutted together. When it was running in the wrong direction I changed voltage to the switch (experimenting) and it seemed to run fine on 110 or 220. Now it'll barely start on 110. So, is 220 right for it the way the motor wiring is configured? I checked motor leads and none had any markings that I could tell. Looks like PO had shrink tubed everything because cloth covering was disintegrating. Thanks for any help.

My son and I figure it had major "tool hit work" collision that bent main shaft and damaged gear where you couldn't tighten it to the shaft. He made new shaft and made a "top hat" repair to the gear. Also put new main shaft bushing in it.
Video of it running reel good. https://youtu.be/6AMl37kPvEY










Last edited by mschreiber; 04-26-2019 at 10:16:51 PM.
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Old 04-26-2019, 09:28:22 PM
circuitman circuitman is offline
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

If the wires are tied together in parallel there have it wired for 120, the way it's wired now is 240 volt, so you should be good!
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:41:55 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Very nice Mike! You could always pull that motor off and mount a small Wisconsin or Briggs engine on it. A few extra rpm might speed it up and make things more interesting.

Chris
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:08:21 AM
mschreiber mschreiber is online now
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

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Originally Posted by K-Tron View Post
Very nice Mike! You could always pull that motor off and mount a small Wisconsin or Briggs engine on it. A few extra rpm might speed it up and make things more interesting.

Chris
ummmmm, That's an idea!
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:22:26 AM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Looks just like mine, but a lot cleaner. Put a piece of metal in, hit the switch and walk away, come back when you hear what sounds like some sort of train wreck. If your in a hurry, get yourself a big bandsaw. I've had mine for at least 40 years, I wouldn't even think of messing with the speed. Slow and steady but always ready.
GUS

PS, don't ever lube the wedge that hold the saw frame open.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:26:14 AM
mschreiber mschreiber is online now
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

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Originally Posted by GeneratorGus View Post
PS, don't ever lube the wedge that hold the saw frame open.
good morning gus, can you offer a photo of the wedge? mine's missing and would like to advertise for one.

i would trade this one for a belt drive flywheel model to hook an engine to. i wouldn't try to speed it up, i like steady as u go.

thanks for any help.
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Old 04-28-2019, 04:03:42 PM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Here's some pictures of mine. A little different than yours, but the lever on it looks like it should be something similar. About the same location as mine.
GUS

Ok, now I get it. I was so distracted by the little counterbalance I didn't notice the rack was missing. Now ya gotta get a gear cutter, unless your good with a hacksaw and file.
The lever on yours has me thinking maybe I should rig a counter balance on mine, or maybe just take it apart and clean it better.
GUS
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:16:36 PM
mschreiber mschreiber is online now
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

The rack as you call it slides in and out to lift the cutting arm and let it down by rotating the ratchet. Does the operater assist using his free hand or will this mechanism lift it ok? Gravity works fine when letting it down. In genius....

I was hoping for a photo of just the wedge rack, maybe with some dimensions to advertise for 1.

thanks
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:41:26 AM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Not sure if it was intended to lift the arm without assist, mine never did. My thinking is more of an assistant to hold it up while the operator jockeyed the workpiece to the cutoff line. I notice the lever on yours is quite a bit longer, it may give enough leverage to lift the arm. Mine cuts very square and the part doesn't need much cleanup, depending on what your building.
I'll check it out and if it only entails pulling the one bolt, and because I want to clean it and because I'm such a nice guy and because I'm housecleaning my shop (pain in the A.. and boring), I'll get you a picture and some dimensions.

Mine came out of the local VA hospital maintainence dept.. The sealed bid included a 36" Famco jump shear and a fairly large auto feed drill press, I think around $300 for all. I use the shear quite a bit and it never needed sharpening. It even cuts paper (a few sheets at a time) and cardboard. Also doubles for a work area and temporary storage.
GUS
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:28:49 PM
mschreiber mschreiber is online now
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

I just saw a parts page and its called a "feed wedge".
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:56:32 AM
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Feed wedge? I had mine apart yesterday, cleaned it up, took some picks and sketched it for you.
I got some insight as to the function. Yours is set up different, buts should work in a similar manner.
Mine has a round steel disc which sandwiches the adjusting gear between it and the mounting surface on the frame, via the bolt which threads to the mount. The bolt protrudes thru the mount and has a locking nut. You can adjust the pressure with the bolt and lock it in at that point. With no lube at all on the wedge or it's contact surfaces, it would only move when you lift the blade frame.
After I lubed it and it went right back to just sliding back out.
Tightening, and locking the bolt adjusted the rate it slid out and really tight stops all movement.
Not sure if it can be adjusted for a feed rate, but you can set it to any blade height, say if you only wanted to cut partly thru the workpiece. And I can now set enough friction to hold the blade at any height while setting the workpiece and then still use the lever to move the wedge out. But it will not lift the blade frame, not enough leverage.
I see a thumbscrew on yours that may set the pressure, or it may function with the mounting bolt, you'll have to figure that out.

Getting to the sketch, if the levered gear on yours is the same pitch diameter and number of teeth as on the picture that shows the gear only on the grid, there are six teeth in the quadrant, not counting the tooth on the horizontal line, makes it a 24 tooth gear. By real machinist I mean not an amateur like me.
I hope this helps, I think a real machinist should be able to make the rack from the pics and sketch if I didn't miss anything. You'll have to make sure that the center of the gear is the same distance to the surface the rack slides on.
Good Luck
GUS
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:39:41 PM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Well this is what i got, no wedge = heavy sawing. Seems like everything i cut is heavy according to my aching back. Thanks for ur help.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:48:26 PM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

I think mine will work like it should now. But before your post, I just put up with the fact that it wouldn't hold the blade up. Most of the time I just leaned into the blade adjusting screw to hold it up while I jockeyed the workpiece. Not a very comfortable stance and it could have gotten serious if I ever accidentally hit the start switch. So you helped put a fire under me to do something about it. Good on you.
I have no doubt that having a wedge made would not be very cost effective.
I've used the end of a prybar which actually works pretty good, but it seems there was never one nearby. Find an old bar or even a bigger chisel and dedicate it to be the wedge. Take the lever gear off to get it out of the way, and don't grease the chosen wedge, the blade height should stay where you set it.
Take the wedge out to make your cut.
I've been using the full weight of the blade frame to make all of my cuts for as long as I've had the saw, no problems with the saw and the blades really don't wear very fast and I always us cutting oil.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:35:20 PM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

How about just download the manual and see what it says. I did, printed it out and now I can't find it in all my stacks of papers. One of these days maybe?
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs...l.aspx?id=4458
Good luck,
Kevin in NC
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:01:21 AM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Kevin, like you just said, "one of these days Maybe".
When using the saw and it's on my mind, yeah. Then I finish the cut, walk away and don't think about it 'til the next time. Thanks for posting the link, now I know everything that I mostly figured out already, problem being it took about forty years to do.
For light cuts I was holding a little up pressure on the blade using the blade adjuster as a grip. It works to some extent, but now I use my bandsaw for small stuff.
GUS
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:47:30 PM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

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Originally Posted by GeneratorGus View Post
Looks just like mine, but a lot cleaner. Put a piece of metal in, hit the switch and walk away, come back when you hear what sounds like some sort of train wreck.
WHY??? Mine only 3 slight taps on the shut off handle.

Make sure ur blade arm ain't hitting (train wreck sound) the vise last 3-4 strokes. It happened like that for me very first time put back together. I had to back vise off.
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:54:41 AM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

Train wreck sound is from the racket when the saw arm drops and the cutoff from the work piece hits the concrete and the accumulated scrap pile below it.
I suppose the wedge would help alleviate the saw arm noise and supporting the cutoff would do the rest. Haven't used it lately. Spring is here and I've been outside enjoying the fresh air.
But, no the arm is not hitting, thanks.
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:49:36 AM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

4 grins & giggles with the wore out tungsten blade that came with it. Can't find tungsten blades online????? It cut just as good as new hss?

From 2x2 solid bar, 1/16" thick sliver.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:57:29 PM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

FWIW, a Google search on "tungsten hacksaw blade" gets all kinds of hits. You can even buy them at Walmart.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:19:13 AM
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Default Re: Motor help needed, Marvel no. 2 saw, WW2 Elwood Ordnance Plant

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FWIW, a Google search on "tungsten hacksaw blade" gets all kinds of hits. You can even buy them at Walmart.
those are for hand hacksaws, will they fit power hacks?
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