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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator


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  #1  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:09:33 PM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Hello to all,
this is my first post, so I hope this is the appropriate venue. If not, please provide instruction as to where to post.
I have recently acquired a Palmer Electric Corp 7.5kw gen set powered by an International Harvester 4 cyl. model P-12. Ser#PS2568. Casting number on the block:4818 D It has proprietary magneto ignition(F4 296011) with a lever for advance/retard (I'm old enough to know that!) The bell housing has an opening for a starting motor (optional?), but is covered with a piece of sheet metal, factory looking, presumably a hand crank start. No crank handle, I'll have to fabricate it. Has an opening under the cast iron radiator for a crank and corresponding configuration in the crankshaft snout. Square head (stove) bolts and nuts on the radiator assembly. Air Cleaner is also International, model D-5 oil bath.
Data plate is as follows;
International Harvester Co.
Model P-12 Serial # PS 2568
Draw bar BHP blank(obviously)
2130 Maximum Idle RPM
Do not overload.

Alternator data plate:
Palmer Electric Power Unit
Palmer Electric MFG. Co.
6637 Bear Ave (Bell) Los Angles, Calif.
Palmer Self Regulating Alternator Patent Pending
220/110 volt 20/41 Amp 60 cycles
3 phase 1200Rpm

Sorry to be so lengthly, please respond if anyone has info on these units, alone or collectively. Thank you, Andy

It is my intention to restore and use this set, preferably with a propane conversion. Be my own utility, so to speak. I had no clue what a rare bird this was till I started looking for info on the engine! I've been all over the interweb and only managed to find two references of folks, like me, looking for info!
Is there any in this community that are familiar with this monkey?
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Old 08-26-2017, 04:24:01 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

That sounds *really* neat! Please post photos when you can.

Keith
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:45:37 PM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

You are welcome. My new unit is quite rough, been sitting in the sun for years in the AZ desert. According to legend, it was uesd to power an old drive in theater in the town of Willcox. I've lived here since 2000, and never knew there was a drive in here!
I'll post some "before" photos soon.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:21:31 PM
Mark Dieckmann Mark Dieckmann is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Andy, the P-12 IH power units would have been built in the '30s. It's basically an F-12 engine so parts will not be too hard to find. With any luck the generator will work with some minor clean up work. Good luck. Please post some pics. I am sending you a PM.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:54:02 PM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Does your generator set have battery cables? If so, it may use the exciter winding in the generator to crank the engine for starting. Many older generators used this type of starting method.

Pictures will be nice.
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:51:10 AM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Steve,
no, no provisions for starting system that I can see. There is also no fuel tank. I did not mention in my original post, there is a fuel pump with a glass sediment bowl, and a cast iron carburetor,as well as a very elaborate (large) governor assembly.

I'll try and get some photos posted today.

Mark,
THANKS! That is the info I'm seeking!!! I thought it odd that there were forums like this and no info on my particular unit!
I was thinking twenties/thirties, the stove bolts on the radiator and all. That and the lack of a starting system.
Whilst I am not an electrician, I am a mechanic of 40 years that is not afraid to tear into anything. And I did install the power to my shop,underground, and the 200 amp panel, and wire the lighting and receptacles, 120/240. I'm not a babe in the woods! I kind of thought that the alternator end of this thing would be okay. Just a matter of figuring
out what goes where.
Again, thank you kind sir.
A.

Mark,
I did not receive your pm(?) private message? I do not know how to respond if I did...???
A.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:08:56 PM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Okay, here's an attempt to upload photos.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:11:20 PM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Sorry, I don't know why the pics got rotated!
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:29:09 PM
moteurdelco moteurdelco is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

your generator looks like the same than a Caterpillar D311 ,20 kw at 1200 rpm(same engine on an old D2). from the 40'.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:29:37 PM
Mark Dieckmann Mark Dieckmann is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

That's certainly a cool unit. I am curious about the governor you speak of, the IH governor would be behind the fuel pump and attach through enclosed linkage to the carb.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:39:02 PM
BernieTech BernieTech is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Is that a motor on top of the generator head. belt driven. could it be the starter?

Bernie
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Old 08-28-2017, 06:55:11 AM
Mark Dieckmann Mark Dieckmann is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

The "motor" is most likely the exciter. They were basically a separate DC generator used to power up the field of the larger AC alternator. Some were belt driven, earlier models were usually directly connected to the end of the alternator. Later "generators" had a separate exciter winding within the alternator. Most current "generators" use an electronic rectifier to convert the AC output into DC to power the field windings.
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:04:38 PM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Bernie,
that arrangement had me puzzled too. Rather odd to "piggy back" a motor on an alternator.I assume it to be the exciter that folks here keep referring to.
though I have heard of a method to use a three phase motor as a generator to power three phase equipment, but I have never personally performed that feat.

---------- Post added at 02:04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02:22 PM ----------

Mark,
I would assume you correct in that the wires exiting the smaller motor assembly are indeed connected to the alternator.
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:58:22 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Virtually undoubtedly the small machine is the exciter generator for the main generator. It should have it's own nameplate. Typical would be 125 volts. DC of course.
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:11:57 PM
moteurdelco moteurdelco is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

if i remember well;the exciter on top of the Cat d311 was 64vdc,feeding 2 big brass slip rings of the main rotor.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:51:13 AM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

There is a small tag on top, but not really large enough to be a data plate. And due to the location (on top) and being in the AZ sun for years, it is unreadable. No visible numbers/letters stamped into it either.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:56:32 PM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Hello to all,

I have received an offer of 1k for this unit. My problem is I have NO clue as to valuation/rarity. I do not know if I'd be giving this thing away or getting a fair and reasonable price. I'm not looking to "hit the lottery", rather just fair and reasonable! Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated.
I think I've done a decent job of description and photos. This thing is RAW, sat for years in the high altitude DRY desert environment! I have done NO disassembly nor even tried to see if it is "free" to rotate.
Any thoughts???
Andy.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:38:48 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is online now
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJamie View Post
Hello to all,

I have received an offer of 1k for this unit. My problem is I have NO clue as to valuation/rarity. I do not know if I'd be giving this thing away or getting a fair and reasonable price. I'm not looking to "hit the lottery", rather just fair and reasonable! Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated... Any thoughts???...
Sure. I'll be glad to decide for you if you should take $1K. First piece of information needed is what did YOU pay for it? Of course, you probably don't want to tell.

Here is my advice. Go look at the set for a while. Then close your eyes, and imagine that you see $1000 in cash sitting right where it is.
Which ever vision gives you more pleasure is the way to go.
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Old 09-10-2017, 03:22:38 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Thumbing back through the thread, it seems to me that $1,000 for a non runner is reasonable, only because of the rarity. If it was a common one then MUCH less for a non runner.

IMHO, what you paid for it has no bearing on what it's actually worth. For better or worse lol.

BUT, if you are seeking maximum value, then you would need to do what it takes to make it start, run, and generate full load reliably, and be able to demonstrate this to prospective buyers, so as to materially reduce their risk.

As it sits, the buyer's risk of potential great expense and trouble to obtain a fully functional and reliable set is high. I'm going through this experience right now with a set that I paid too much for. I'd take the grand, and be happy it has probably gone to a good home.

Well, personally, I would want it in my collection, so I guess I wouldn't sell after all....
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:31:50 AM
AndyJamie AndyJamie is offline
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Default Re: Palmer Electric Corp, 7.5 kw alternator

Van,
thank you for your thoughts. As stated, I'm not seeking the lottery, only what is fair and reasonable. I am a mechanic of 40 + years of considerable ability. I have, over the course of my career, worked on every conceivable type of equipment. I see no reason to "give this thing away", hence my request for opinions. I am not looking to use or abuse anyone!
I also am not looking for the same for myself.
Thank you.

---------- Post added at 11:31:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54:13 PM ----------

Wayne, or is it Whine, the big block, or big mouth...
no thanks for your non opinion. Your input is useless, though I feel sure that you feel smug and self assured! Judging by your almost 5k posts, and LESS than 300 thanks, you are not someone that I'd cross the street to say hello to.
Please, imagine yourself sitting AND spinning on your middle finger, and NOT enjoying it.(though I don't want to think about it!) I do not want or need the opinions of a drama queen snowflake aZZclown.
If you are in need of attention, holler upstairs at your Momma and demand some more pizza rolls, she is as close to a wife as you'll ever smell .
How pathetic is that? I peruse some serious political sites, but who the hell would bother to TROLL a hobby site like this??? Senoir Sorros must be scraping the bottom of the scum barrel to pay a punk such as yourself, seems you couldn't BUY yourself a friend on the interweb if your multi gendered life depended on it... absolutely pathetic.
FOAD.
Seriously, you remind me of my eldest brother, #1 of 7. A self righteous bible thumping hypocrite, glutenous know it all, better viewed in the rear view mirror!
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