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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max


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  #1  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:39:52 PM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Angry Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

Hello, I have a Mecc Alte generator attached to Isuzu diesel. Have tried everything I know and could find to repair with no luck. Voltage on each leg is about 27.5 volts = 55 volts total. Replaced Voltage regulator made no difference. Trying to repair myself or find someone in area, so far no luck with either.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:57:23 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

Someone has to do it, so here goes.

Your post has had over 70 views and until now zero responses. There are reasons for that, and here are some-

(1) Mecc Alte has made many different styles of generators, your post does not state which one you have. Including a model number or picture of the rating plate may yield better results.

(2) You have not asked a specific question - your post tells us what you have done. It gives no clue about the troubleshooting process employed, the circumstances of the set's failure or your own technical ability.

Post back with what happened when it failed, your troubleshooting process (even if it is "I stuck a regulator on it because I had no clue...") and a specific model number if you have same. Maybe then you will get more satisfactory results.
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:17:50 PM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Photo Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

At least someone replied: I will answer what you asked: Generator is MeCC alte spa Type ECO 28-1L/4 Model XM1622000N (see photo of Data). Purchased new in 2005 only has 45 hrs on it. Went to run it for a test and had no power. Checked voltage with a meter and it was around 26 volts each leg. Removed cover to check things saw no issues. Ran fine and worked fine last time tested it about a month ago. From what I have read and understand, sounded like the Voltage regulator (AVR) was bad. Ordered new one and installed made no difference same issue very low voltage. Tried flashing using drill in reverse made no difference. Went thru all wiring on top saw no issues so did more research. Decided to excite with 12 volt battery. This produced about 155 volts on each leg total output of 310 volts. Turned generator off reconnected yellow & blue leads to AVR and tested voltage total output about 28 volts, ran engine for while to see if any change and there was not. I can test and do what needs to be if have instructions. So the problem is very low voltage and the question is what is the problem and what do I test/repair next. I believe I have answered everything.
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:16:01 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

Next step would be to excite again with 12 volts and see that the voltage regulator AC sensing and/or power input wires are seeing what they should be seeing.

It sounds like you have a perfectly fine generator, just some sort of control problem.

By the way, no offense but a wire nut does not belong anywhere on a vibrating machine like this and neither does that aluminum SE type cable.
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:45:35 PM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

When you excite with the 12 volts the wires blue and yellow are removed from AVR correct? What do you mean by voltage regulator AC sensing and/or power input wires are seeing what they should be seeing, explain. As far as the wire nuts came from dealer that way as for the aluminum wires no issue with that, yet anyways.I know I am about fed up with it no one around here that I can find works on them either.
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Old 03-30-2019, 05:11:33 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

It is hard to read these manuals with all the foreign languages on them but I think this manual should be close enough:

https://www.meccalte.com/downloads/M...rev32_2012.pdf

Reference page 60 table 3 and page 61 table 4.

You can always remove blue and yellow and excite them with 12v, that is the safe way. (It can be done with them still connected on some brands but I can't tell you for sure. See if you can decipher the manual.)

When you hit them with 12v and have 300v on the output, you should be seeing the same voltage on green and black (I think. They should be hooked up to your output hots)

Also when being 12v excited, red-red should have a pretty good voltage on them.

My guess is one or the other of those two will be found to be missing.
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:24:22 AM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotabota View Post
...test and had no power. Checked voltage with meter and was around 26 volts each leg.....sounded like the Voltage regulator (AVR) was bad....excite with 12 volt battery. This produced about 155 volts on each leg total output of 310 volts...
That is much better. Mr. Vogt has suggested a very probable issue, the new regulator may not be getting the voltages needed to work. Another possibility is that the new regulator is defective- "new" does not always mean "functional".

Just for my benefit, what adjustments (if any) did you make on the "new" regulator after it was installed?

Here is a link to Mecc Alte documentation on the AVR that I think you have, including a bench test procedure.
http://bdsar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/avr-sr7.pdf
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:56:53 AM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

It's the 2nd new AVR. From what I can tell the AVR is not receiving correct voltage. With generator running and all connected terminal 1 & 3 shows only like 4 volts, shouldn't it be 110? So why would it not have any higher voltage. I tried all the adjustments with the voltage,Hz etc and made no differences after install of AVR. Does this mean internal issue? Who repairs an Electrical motor shop or a generator shop, everyone around here seems to only work on Generac.
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:02:05 AM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

I have taken the liberty of adding to the quote below, maybe this will help you understand why there is low voltage on the blue-yellow. Mr. Vogt, if I have misunderstood, please clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birken Vogt View Post
...You can always remove blue and yellow and excite them with 12v, that is the safe way. (It can be done with them still connected on some brands but I can't tell you for sure. See if you can decipher the manual.) The blue and yellow wires are outputs from the AVR- if there is no power to the AVR from the other leads there will be no output on terminals 1-3.

When you hit them (blue and yellow wires) with 12v and have 300v on the output, you should be seeing the same voltage on green and black (I think. They should be hooked up to your output hots) Green and black are inputs to the regulator.

Also when being 12v excited, red-red should have a pretty good voltage on them. Red-red is also an input to the regulator.

My guess is one or the other of those two (green-black or red-red) will be found to be missing. Without those input voltages, the AVR cannot work properly. Thus, you may not get any significant voltage on the blue-yellow wires.
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:16:20 AM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

Thanks for clarifying, I will check that. If one of those two is missing what would be the problem, and the remedy? It bothers me to leave the 12 volt connected so long most I've read says 3-8 seconds.
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:57:47 AM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotabota View Post
Thanks for clarifying, I will check that. If one of those two is missing what would be the problem, and the remedy?...
Could be any number of things, it is difficult to remotely diagnose some issues. A procedure that would take me 10 minutes with a meter on site can be frustratingly hard to explain via posting here.

You will have to do some troubleshooting-start at the VR terminals with missing voltage and work your way back toward the generator until you find something.

Don't venture into things you are not qualified to do and comfortable with- a generator can kill you as easily or more so than utility power.

Quote:
It bothers me to leave the 12 volt connected so long most I've read says 3-8 seconds.
Maybe you can use clip leads to hook up your meter prior to applying the battery. Takes only a few seconds to read a voltmeter.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:16:38 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

The procedures we have outlined here are what we as professional technicians use to "test everything at once". Separately excite the field and measure for proper output on the power wires.

If you want to do things in a slower and possibly safer manner, the first thing to do would be to remove the reds and check ohms between them. Also check ohms between black and green. Both should be near zero ohms but not quite zero.

If either of these shows open circuit you have found the problem area.
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Old 03-31-2019, 02:37:07 PM
Joe Romas Joe Romas is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

When I look at photo 2 of 4 the end of the generator I see a very corroded screw connecting a lead from a diode.
If it were me I would remove and clean ONE AT A TIME that screw and the other diode leads.
Your pictures and the fact you live in Florida would steer me to a simple bad connection.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:56:10 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

I don't think if he had a bad diode or diode connection he would be getting full voltage with 12 volts excitation.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:49:56 AM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte 15KW output 55 volts max

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birken Vogt View Post
It is hard to read these manuals with all the foreign languages on them but I think this manual should be close enough:

https://www.meccalte.com/downloads/M...rev32_2012.pdf

Reference page 60 table 3 and page 61 table 4.

You can always remove blue and yellow and excite them with 12v, that is the safe way. (It can be done with them still connected on some brands but I can't tell you for sure. See if you can decipher the manual.)

When you hit them with 12v and have 300v on the output, you should be seeing the same voltage on green and black (I think. They should be hooked up to your output hots)

Also when being 12v excited, red-red should have a pretty good voltage on them.

My guess is one or the other of those two will be found to be missing.
I ran test as above: Meter red on one wire and black on other here are results:
Green (Goes to on out hot) & Black (goes internal) = 157 volts
Red and Red (Both internal) = 0 Volts
So you are correct on that, what is problem and next step? Thanks Gents
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Old 04-01-2019, 12:05:48 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

Green/black are for voltage sensing. Seems like they are working, but I would have expected 310V, but whatever. They tell the AVR where the voltage is and it adjusts itself.

Because the immediate problem is that red/red should have some meaningful voltage. They provide power to the AVR to operate itself. They are an additional power winding not connected to the house loads.

First off disconnect them and measure with an ohmmeter. Probably will be open circuit, but should show near zero ohms on a working machine. Also measure each red to the power terminals. Should be open circuit.

If this all checks out, and red is open circuit, dig in as far as you are able to see if you can find where the red is broken.

Failing this, you might install a universal AVR that gets power from the main windings, but that is a more complicated job.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:22:38 PM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

Both reds shop open circuit to all tests. The transformer has one black leg on yellow side not connected to anything. The other 2 black one to hot and one to ground. Both yellow go to governor. Is transformer just for governor? Black loose wire ok??
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:43:01 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

Transformer is probably just for the governor. This will not have anything to do with failure to make voltage. Loose wire probably just a tap that was never used.

(We have been assuming the engine is running near or slightly above full speed, correct?)

If the reds are open, no way to make power. Either find out why and fix them, or abandon them and use a different (shunt powered) AVR. Knowing that your generator head likely has problems internally.

If you decide to just replace with a shunt powered AVR, call these guys and discuss your needs esp. mounting holes.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:06:47 PM
Yotabota Yotabota is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

From what I can tell both reds go to Stator, correct? Does that mean stator is bad? If I have that repaired how much $$ am I looking at? You said to call these guys about Shunt AVR but what guys? What are procedures to take unit apart? If/can I remove generator from engine and take to a electric motor shop? How difficult to remove from engine guessing weighs around 200 or so. Appreciate assistance. Oh on engine speed yes good to go, I also manually increased speed and made no difference.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:20:19 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Mecc Alte spa ECO 28-1L/4 15KW output only 55 volts max

Forgot to include the link

partsfortechs.com

The reds are one of three different windings in the stator and they appear to be bad. But if you use a shunt connected AVR you can get by without them. With somewhat decreased ability to start heavy motors. YMMV.

You might find a motor shop who could fix them (likely just a broken wire). But you are on the wrong end of the country. That generator is heavier than it looks, be careful.
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